Episode 002 – How to Save the Comic Book Industry

Introduction

Kris: You are now listening to the Nerd Byword podcast. In today’s episode, we put on our capes as we try to save the comic book industry.

Dave: And welcome back to the Nerd by Word podcast. Our second episode, another week, another episode. my name is Dave and I’m here with.

Kris: My name is Chris. Thanks for coming in.

Dave: we’re very excited. We have a lot of interesting topics to get to. and as we did in our first episode, we’re gonna start off with some nerdy news.

Actor JK Simmons says he expects to appear in future Spider-man films

Now, Kris, what did you pick out for this week?

Kris: The headline for my story is JK Simmons addresses JJ’s film future. Actor JK Simmons spoke recently with people tv’s Lola Okanake about his nerves during his, initial audition for the role of Daily Bugle head honcho J. Jonah Jameson in, Sam Raimi’s 2002 film Spider man. and despite previously working with Raimi on two films, Simmons, recounted still having to audition by reading for a scene in which he was being choked out by the Green Goblin after the supervillain crashed, through his windows, the, windows of his office. Now, Simmons portrayal of the hot-headed bugle boss remains a hallmark of the Raimi Spider man films. he shocked webheads worldwide when he reappeared with a different iteration of the character, during a mid-credits scene following the conclusion of 20 nineteen’s far from home. when Oganake asked if the, MCU and Spidey fans, could expect to see his character show up again in future films, Simmons replied that expect may not be the correct word choice. He further explained, that while he is signed on for multiple sequels, the studio is not obligated to include any of his scenes. His final words on the topic were, quote, it’s great to have the opportunity, as these things evolve to be one of the holdovers from the previous version. End quote. and I just find it hard to believe, you know, I understand, you know, him laying everything out there that, you know, I’m signed on and I’m going to film this stuff. but they’re under no obligation from the studios to use it. But I find it hard to believe that he wouldn’t for two major reasons. Number one, he’s the gold standard for the character JK Simmons. When I think of JK Simmons, I think of J. Jonah Jameson and vice versa. It’s next, replace him. You know, and I had assumed and, you know, a lot of other Spider man fans had just assumed because he was part of, you know, the Raimi trilogy, which was two previous Spider man film franchises, that they were just not going to include him in this, you know, storyline because he was impossible to recast that character. We just assumed, you know, that he was not going to be used in these films. hence, you know, everyone’s jaw hitting the theater floor, you know, last summer when he showed up. The second reason that I would think that he will appear, in my opinion, is the actual scene that he’s featured in. Featured in is begging a continuation. You know, like the way it’s set up right there, just the ingenious way in which they incorporate, you know, kind of like an info wars, you know, type of character as JJJ and just kind of repurposing that character for something more modern. and the fact that he is the one that spoils Peter’s, or Spider Man’s identity as Peter Parker to, the public at large, he, in my opinion, has to be in future films.

Dave: Oh, I totally agree. JK Simmons is. You said it exactly right. The gold standard for that character. I’m cautiously optimistic. I’m a little troubled in some aspects of the MCU Spider man movies just because they don’t oftentimes feel like Spider man. They feel a little bit, like Iron man light or Iron Man Junior in a lot of ways. So, I’m hopeful that they’re bringing in some of these more classic elements, of the Spider man mythos for the next movie. Yeah, he’s just fantastic. I have to say, it threw me off a little bit, what they did with the hair, that he wasn’t wearing a hairpiece as J. Jonah Jameson because his hair is almost as iconic a character as the character of J. Jonah Jameson himself. Yeah, the way they brought him into the movie was spot on. I know that in the comic books they’ve done a little bit of that before where they, got him out of the bugle and had him be like a tv pundit for a little while. At one point, he was like mayor of New York City in the comic books. So, the character is definitely versatile and flexible enough to, do something different with him, moving forward. It’s just a matter of if they’re going to use him more in the future. I hope definitely that they do, yeah.

Kris: It’s actually, ironically enough, currently in Nick Spencer’s current run of Amazing Spider man. He’s actually a podcast host now. So he’s been really an easy character to kind of shift with. The times you made reference of how heavy handed the MCU influence has been on Spider man and that inclusion, that connected universe has, you know, has been a blessing and a curse. you had, you know, Edgar Wright leaving the first Ant man film because he was not a part of, you know, the, the Falcon, cameo in the first ant men film. So Peyton Reid came in and one of the cons of that, you know, while we appreciate the Tony Stark Peter Parker relationship in the MCU films, it is still very heavy handed in both Spider man films. I would totally agree with that. My hope and the reason why I think it’s going to wave that you are hoping is because of the film rights kind of transferring back to Sony. Simply logistically, they’re, you know, kind of phasing out of his MCU involvement. So that would make me, you know, think simply logically that it’s going to kind of scale back to his individual universe, which, being a Spider man fan and knowing all of that universe and how just vast it is, that’s more than enough source material for, you know, another film.

Dave: Oh, yeah. It’s definitely a toss-up, about who has, you know, the better supporting cast as far as villains and just general supporting players between Batman and Spider man. It’s a. It’s a vast universe and there’s so much potential, there, to mine the comic books and really do some interesting movies that have not been done before in the previous iterations. But again, I’m just worried, that the strong connection to the MCU is going to continue to make those movies, less classic Spider man and more Iron man light. But, you know, here’s hoping. seeing j. Jonah Jameson on the big screen again was definitely a step in the right direction.

Kris: Yeah, absolutely.

Henry Cavill is in negotiations to play Superman again

Now, Dave, you, have a news story for us as well this week. What have you got?

Dave: Oh, this one really, got my goat, I have to say. So according to Deadline, Henry Cavill is actually negotiations to play Superman again. He played Superman in, the man of Steel, Batman v, Superman and injustice League. And then it sort of looked like Warner Bros. Had soured a little bit on the DC extended Universe. Now, he’s in talks to reprise the role, but, and this is a big but not, in a standalone Superman movie. some outlets are speculating that they’re planning on using Superman, the way Mark Ruffalo’s Hulk is used in the MCU as somebody who pops up in other people’s movies but doesn’t really get a standalone movie. Now, of course, the MCU Hulk technically had a standalone movie when he was still being played by Edward Norton. but since Mark Ruffalo has taken over the role, he just pops up in other people’s movies. He’s in the Avengers, he pops up in Thor. There’s a post credits scene in, I believe, iron, man three where he popped up. I’m not happy about this report, honestly. Superman is, is not a bit player. He’s one of the premier comic book characters. But Warner seems to be completely unable to figure out what to do with him. I would highly recommend that some of the executives actually read, a comic book. There are so many good stories to mine there. for the man who has everything, Superman for all seasons, Superman’s secret identity, John Burns man, a steel miniseries, Mark Wade’s birthright, all star, Superman by Grant Morrison, even Geoff. John’s brainiac, storyline, that he did in action comics. There are so many good stories that they could be mining man, of steel was not a home run by any stretch of the imagination. But Cavill has proven himself. He can play Superman. They just need to give him something to work with, a worthy script and a good story, and we could have sort of a definite on-screen Superman. It’s just, it boggles my mind that they have such a character with such a rich history, and they just can’t figure out what to do with him.

Kris: Yeah, you made an interesting, note there with studio executives. It feels like, you know, with us both being educators is when legislators come in and try and tell us how to teach these studio executives exactly. Telling, you know, how, you know, comic book writers how to, you know, make films. My first glance, you know, I first saw the headline, you know, Henry Cavill to return to Superman. I was initially excited because I’m with, I’m right there with you all the way, that I love his ability to, you know, be Superman and Clark Kent. and I said this on our previous pod. he has not been given anything close to, you know, good source, material, good scripts, storyline, anything. So like, it’s, it’s like seeing like a star NBA player on a twelve win team or something like that, you know. and I’m just absolutely befuddled by this. Marvel made the decision to do what they did with the Hulk because of the unfortunate sticky situation with those film distribution rights and an inability to come to an agreement with universal. They kind of made the best. They made chicken salad out of chicken. You know what? You know, so why would the DCEU do the same thing to their flagship, character whose rights they own.

Dave: 100% of it boggles the mind. And again, as a lifelong Superman fan and somebody who liked the previous movie series with Chris Reeves and somebody who’s read, ah, just a ton of Superman stories, I just, I can’t understand how they can’t figure out what to do with this character on the big screen. warner, give me a call. I have a lengthy list of suggestions for you.

Kris: Yeah, absolutely. All right, I think that wraps up our, nerd news, segment for this week when we come back from our first break. We’ll be back with our big talk, our by word for the week, which is how to save the comic book industry.

We propose strategies to boost comic book sales

We are back now, Dave and I, for our byword big talk of the week. We decided to tackle the comic book, sales and how, we each came up with three, strategies on how we think that comic, book sales could be improved. So, Dave, what is first on your list?

Dave: Yeah, so first off, you know, we’re both huge fans of the medium. And so it is concerning to see that although superheroes have never been bigger, they’re making, you know, billion dollar movies like, endgame. And so it’s kind of mind boggling, really, how these companies are not managing to take the interest in superheroes and the interest in comic books as a source material and transfer that to sales. so hopefully, a few of these suggestions that we have could be helpful to the industry. my first one is to make digital a bigger priority. Digital, video game sales are booming so much that stores like GameStop are struggling to stay afloat. Comic books need to learn a little bit something from the video game industry. Now, sure, collectors won’t want to buy digital. They want to collect. But many comic book fans are not collectors. They’re readers. They want to be able to read the stories. not necessarily take, a floppy and put it in a bag with a board and tape it shut and put it in a long box in their basement. that’s not what most comic book fans are looking for. I know I’m not. I have a lot of comic books in my basement in several long boxes. But I bought those not as a collector, but as a reader first.

Kris: Right?

Dave: So hand in hand with that idea of making digital priorities. that digital. And this is going to maybe, upset some, comic shop owners. Digital should be cheaper than print.

Kris: Yeah.

Dave: That, that is simply fact. There is no paper, no ink, no shipping, no profit split with comic book shops going on, it makes no sense for a digital issue, to pay $3.99 and then pay the same price for print. The trick here is really accessibility and entertainment for your buck. Comic books are short reading experiences in, their current monthly format. A, cheaper digital option makes comic books more accessible, since you don’t have to go to a comic book shop to find them, and more affordable to the consumer. And I would even say sort of a Netflix model is probably even a better idea. Marvel Unlimited is a really good example of that. It’s a great first step. $10 a month. You get 30,000 comic books you can access. You can read them any time. It’s perfect for readers. There’s just one problem. It does not include new comic books. The monthly pool is not generally in Marvel Unlimited, and so that’s a problem. You should have some kind of subscription service like that where people can read newer comic books, not just stuff, from m the back catalog. I understand that the industry is hesitating on this because publishers don’t want to alienate comic shop owners by lowering digital prices. Makes total sense, but the audience is shrinking, and comic shops won’t be around forever if the industry doesn’t manage to hook new readers. Kris, what are your thoughts on that?

Kris: Yeah, absolutely.

Digital comics have the potential to tap into the streaming media market

and here’s my hot take of the week. I prefer digital comics. It’s the world we live in now. I can sit in my La z Boy recliner with access to an untold amount of digital comics. I’ve been a Marvel Unlimited subscriber since probably, 2016. I don’t have the space to be a collector. I have bunch of kids, and I don’t even want to put my kids in the situation where they might, you know, mess up a mint condition issue, and then I’m upset with them or whatever, and I simply just don’t have the space in my house, you know? You know, if, if I was, an individual with a larger salary and a larger house, then that might be a situation where I had disposable income. But when I can go 999 a month and, you know, go read a, significant amount of comics, or you go, comicology Unlimited is $5.99 a month. I’m reading up on those TMNT issues you recommended last episode. I found, some zorro comics. I’m a huge Zorro fan. I found, a zorro and django unchained team up comic.

Dave: I didn’t even, oh, that one. That one’s fantastic. Oh, yeah, that one’s. Fantastic. Really. A lot of the stuff that dynamite, did with Zorro was really good, especially the Matt Wagner stuff. Highly recommended stuff. Really good run.

Kris: Yep. So that’s sitting in my library. I mean, like, the only problem is I don’t have enough time for all the stuff that I want to read. so I totally agree. Like, like I said, I just don’t have the space, and it’s the world we live in right now. Like, you know, as educators, we have to bribe our students to read. We’re not going to be able to, you know, like, and I’ll get to this in one of my further points. You’re going to be much easier to get people to read something if they can easily and quickly access it and they’re not having to go on a scavenger hunt just to find it.

Dave: Yeah, absolutely. That is definitely sort of the point that we’re stuck on here. everything seems to be moving towards a digital distribution model. Movies, video games, there is absolutely no reason for comic books not to take advantage of that.

Kris: Yep.

Comic books should be available everywhere, not just specialty shops

Dave: All right, Kris, so what is your first point? How would you save the comic book industry?

Kris: my first one, you kind of hinted at, a little bit in your previous points, and you also kind of sprung this on me with something you said in our last episode. And my first point, of emphasis is accessibility, and that goes into the stores. And as you previously stated, this is not going to make local comic book shop owner is very happy, but I should be able to go to Walmart or target and see comic books. If you’re going to sell action figures, you’re going to sell toys of these characters and these properties, why not have the source material right there as well? You know, put number ones in the checkout line, you know? So if you, if you want to be a little lcs friendly, here’s my, here’s my proposition. Put the number ones in the checkout line, next to the Twix, next to the Snickers, next to the Skittles that these kids are crying and kicking and screaming for. And just the number ones, though. And if they want to read on to the next issue, then they, then here, even put like a sticker on the front or on the back. or an attach and be like, if you want to read on, head to this comic book shop. As a regular consumer of superheroes and nerdy content from age three or four, I knew absolutely nothing about what a local comic shop was. I didn’t know it existed. It was like some secret society, like the Freemasons, apparently. I didn’t know anything until I was 17 and I just heard somebody talking. I, like, I didn’t know that was a thing. Now, I did some, some deep dives last night on, on the Internet, and I did see on Marvel.com, they have some free number ones that you can read for free. But I had to work for it. I had to go. So I went to Marvel.com, then I went to the comics tab, and then I had to click on three or four other things. And then I saw some free number ones. I didn’t see anything like that on DC’s, website. I may have just missed it. I didn’t see anything like that on idws. Just getting them hooked on that first issue and putting it out in stores and more availability, you know, make it available.

Dave: So my first comic book purchase actually came from a grocery store.

Kris: Yeah, that’s what made me think of that. Yeah.

Dave: Yeah. after that, I bought most comic, books I bought actually at a newsstand. Or there was this little tiny tobacco shop, believe it or not, near my school. And after school, I would walk past this tobacco shop which carried magazines and comic books, and I’d pick up some comic books while I was there. Now, when the comic book boom hit in Germany, comic books were everywhere. Now they’re really only in specialty shops. And those shops are for fans by design. You can’t draw in new readers if your product is only available where people who are already fans can find it. Comic shops are not always new people. Friendly. I’ve been to some fantastic shops locally. don’t get me wrong, but I’ve also been to some just traveling around. And you get some interesting reactions when there’s a perception from the person working at the shop that you’re a newbie or you don’t know what you’re doing. And that sort of dismissiveness is not what the industry needs. You know, when you ask for a particular comic book and somebody says, oh, well, who reads that? Hahaha. That is the exact wrong reaction. Now, how do we fix this? I have no idea. I did a little bit of research on what happened to the newsstand model. The idea of comic books in grocery stores and in gas stations. And apparently the big kicker was, besides diamond distribution being essentially a monopoly, is returnability. Grocery stores, and newsstands, these shops did not purchase the comic books outright and then just sit on them, they were returnable. So if they didn’t sell any copies, those copies were sent back to the publisher, which makes perfect sense. It’s a low risk model for the shop, and that way, they were more willing to try new things. Now, everything is non returnable for the most part, except for specific number ones or anniversary issues or anything like that, where some comic book shops might over order just to make sure they have enough. That model’s not sustainable. Comic shops don’t want to get stuck with a bunch of old, unsold comics. They order the amount they know they will sell to pre existing customers, and so there’s no opportunity to grow the audience. Now, I will commend DC for trying to get some comics into Walmart. Great idea. But Walmart basically threw them into a corner next to the gathering cards. You really have to go looking for them. The natural place for a comic book is near the checkout, lines, just like you said right there with the candy. It should be an impulse buy. Marvel is owned by Disney, arguably the biggest corp. Entertainment corporation in the world. They can strong arm the government to keep extending copyright lengths so they don’t lose Mickey Mouse. You can’t tell me they can’t negotiate prominent placement for comic books in a shop like Walmart.

Kris: Or, or here’s a novel idea, even in the books section of Walmart, you.

Dave: Know, that would be a huge step in the right direction. Absolutely.

Classic reprints should be significantly cheaper to draw in readers

Kris: So, Dave, what is, next on your list for saving the comic book industry?

Dave: This is sort of, an odd idea, but I’ve been throwing this one around for a while. I noticed that Marvel and DC both, have gotten into the habit of occasionally reprinting classic issues and selling those pretty much for the same price that they sell any other floppy for. Jim Zub, he’s a comic book writer who’s worked with Marvel. Quite a good writer. In 2012, he made a blog post about making money with creator owned comics. And that post was a goldmine of information. But I found it fascinating that he mentioned $0.80 as a good benchmark of what it costs to print a small run of comic books. Around 3000 copies. Now, obviously, DC and Marvel are printing in the tens of thousands, and so it is probably fair to say they get a reasonable rebate, just due to the volume of what they’re ordering. Now, profit margins here are razor thin. We know this because comic shops take about 40% to 50% of the cover price. Diamond takes about a fifth or 6th of the cover price. But still, the actual cost to produce a floppy is much lower than I think people realize. So anyway, imagine you walk into a store like Walmart or grocery store, and instead of having the newest number one sitting there for four or $5, at the checkout aisle, imagine you have floppies that reprint classic stories for $0.99. They are reprints. These are already things that, they’ve paid the artist for, they’ve paid the colorist for. They’re sitting in their archives. They’re constantly reprinting them in trade paperback form all the time anyways, but they’re always going for premium. And instead of doing that, let’s go dirt cheap. Make it hard for people to say no. Make it an impulse buy. If you can get a comic book for the price of a Snickers.

Kris: Exactly.

Dave: It’s very difficult to say no to something like that. And you don’t have to worry quite as much about modern page rates and making sure that, you’re making enough money off of a single issue that everybody gets a fair share of. When you’re having all this archival material, classic runs that you can reprint much, much cheaper and then use that to hook new readers. What are your thoughts on that, Chris?

Kris: Yeah, I love that idea. a couple of notes I had on this strategy would be you get up to date on the classics and you feel like you’re starting somewhere. So if you, let’s say I’m my 17 year old self and I’m like, I love all of this stuff, I don’t know where to get started. But if I see the first issue of the dark Phoenix saga or the first issue of Crisis on infinite Earths for $0.99, heck yeah, I’m grabbing that and I feel like I’m starting somewhere, and then it’s a snowball effect. If I can get this old stuff for cheap. hm. Maybe when I get some allowance money, or maybe when I get, you know, a Christmas bonus, I’m gonna be more compelled to go and get stuff that might be more cost effective. You know, if I eat that little, I like that little, regular sized snickers, you know, if I’m really treating myself, I’ll get a twelve pack of fun size ones or, you know, a bag of them. You’ve already made your big money on dark Phoenix saga or, you know, crisis on infinite earths, or spider, man no more, or, you know, secret wars. You’ve already made your big money at that time. Why not get some, like, residuals? You know, when they show Rocky two, you know, an AMC, you know, Stallone gets money for that. You know, why would you not try to get some kind of residual stuff on it?

Dave: Yeah, I just imagine, for example, somebody like you, who’s just really, when he first was getting into comic books, you walk into a Walmart or a grocery store, and here you have Spider man chronology, starting with the original first appearance. Every month, a new issue just reprinting the classic Stan Lee stiff Ditko run. That stuff holds up remarkably well today. Oh, yeah. It would definitely draw in young people. I cannot imagine, some, middle schoolers not, wanting to pick that up and read it, especially knowing Spider man from the MCU. It’s the perfect kind of entry point stuff.

Big screen adaptations should be used to promote the comic books

So, Chris, what is your, next strategy for saving the comic book industry?

Kris: The next thing that I have on my list is, promotion from screen adaptations. As you previously stated. You’ve got Infinity War out there getting a billion dollars. You’ve got Avengers Endgame making 2 billion. Even the less successful films, you know, in air quotes, you’ve got making hundreds of millions. Even the disappointments. I remember when I went to go see Age of Ultron. I remember Dwayne’s world, the local comic book shop in our area handing out free comics. Secret War Zero, they had LCS employees handing out free comics as you’re walking in. And I was like, this is great. The next thing I did after seeing that film, the next time I had free time, I went and bought the next comic in that series because, you know, boom, it was right there. I’m consuming this content. You love these characters. Here it is. You know, Spider man two for so many Spider man fans and superhero fans, is considered one of the best superhero movies ever made. It’s based on amazing Spider Man Hash 50 Spider man no more by Stan Lee and John Romita Sr. Not a lot of people know that. You know, even if they’re hardcore Spider man fans, they might not even know that. You should be putting that in the credits. You should either be putting that, you know, at the beginning crawl or when you’re, you know, you’re like, setting the scenes or they’re in a cafe or something. You should see, based on these issues written by Stanley Jonder, me, you know, they do that a little bit with, like, Batman created by Bill Finger, you know, all that. But, ramp that up. Like, so, like, if you like this movie, go read the source material. You can put in the end credits, begin credits or whatever. Or something. Like you saw Avengers, infinity War, you know, go read Infinity gauntlet, you know, I shouldn’t have to perform an extensive Google deep dive because I’m doing the work for you. Like, if you weren’t such an obsessive person over this stuff, like I am or you are, like, they wouldn’t be finding this material. So what do you think about that?

Dave: I totally agree. I remember seeing Superman, returns at a midnight showing. and they had a little grab bag of nerdy goodies for everybody. There was a comic book for free in there. It was, I think, a leftover from free comic book day and, like, a little figurine or something. It was. It was quite fantastic. And a nice little bonus. And I think a lot of people were inspired by that to maybe give some Superman comics a shot. Yeah, the last Avengers movie made, like, a billion dollars. And I think I’ve mentioned this before, if even a fraction of those moviegoers would have seen a comic book and decided, yes, I want to read more about the Avengers, instead of waiting for two to three years for them to make another movie, this would be a huge shot in the arm for the comic book industry. It’s one of the greatest missed opportunities in cross promotion history. I would take it a step further. They should be making comic book trailers and running them at the beginning of the movie.

Kris: Yeah.

Dave: People are walking in and they’re wanting to see an Avengers movie, and then they see a trailer, you know, hey, you can read more about the Avengers. Go to your local comic book shop, something, throw in some cool comic book panels up there, and you will probably see some progress from that.

Kris: Now, I can’t speak to DC, but I’ve seen Marvel make release trailers for, like, upcoming events. Like, they have empire coming up now, or when they had, like, Civil War two, they made hype videos like that. Why would you not put that at the beginning of your movie?

Dave: Yeah, there seems to be a little bit of a lack, of communication, perhaps. I think sometimes that the movie movie divisions, they kind of feel like they’re just. The comic books are just a field for them to mine for story ideas, but they’re not really concerned with the actual health of that market itself. Eventually that market will dry up if we don’t take good care of it. So. Yeah, it seems like definitely a huge missed opportunity. I totally agree with you.

Comic books should be disposable entertainment, not high-end luxury items

Kris: All right, Dave, what is next on your list for saving the comic book industry?

Dave: Yeah, so this one, I don’t know. I don’t know how popular this is going to be, but I’m really thinking that we should probably talk about downgrading I did a little bit of research. I went to a website called Comicron, which is absolutely fantastic in that it has all sorts of sales data, going back to, the 1960s, about comic books. They got a lot of this from, like, postal statements and the like that publishers, used to have to file. and so with my trusty inflation calculator at my side, I came up with a little chart to trace how prices and sales figures changed. In 1960, the median price for a comic book was $0.10, based on the inflation calculator, in 2020, this would be $0.87 for a comic book. Now, in 1960, the number one best selling comic book in the country was Uncle Scrooge, which sold an average of 1,040,543 copies a month. Superman was at number three at this point, at 810,000 on average. Now, over the last few decades, obviously, we started seeing the price creep up. by 1985, comic books were $0.75. In modern money, that would be $1.79. Amazing Spider man, that year, sold an average of 327,637 issues. By 1997, comic books were 250. In modern day cash, that’s 399. That’s pretty much where we’re standing right now. Amazing Spider man was selling an average of two, hundred, 74,400. By 2010, the price average was $3.99 for most comic books in, modern day money, by the way, that is $4.69, accounting for inflation. And Amazing Spider man was selling 73,581 copies. Now, in January of 2020, just to bring it as close to now as possible, Amazing Spider man sold 57,726 copies. The best selling comic book that month was Wonder Woman 750. It’s a big anniversary issue, and it only sold 167,377 copies. So over the course of the last few decades, we went from having comic books that could sell a million copies a month to selling with one of the most popular characters, Amazing Spider man, just over 50,000. And I think part of the problem is that comic books have gone premium. It’s fantastic art. All very high end, fantastic, expensive paper, only the best colors. It’s turned from a cheap impulse buy to an expensive, premium collector’s item. And that’s not how you draw in new readers. So I propose a cheap line of comics. It doesn’t have to be, the entire output from a publisher, but let’s start with something go cheap. Streamline the art. Less lines, less work for the artist. Think of something like Batman, the animated series. That dark deco style, much simplified. Not, as much detail. The average comic book page can take a full days work to pencil, eight to 10 hours. That is an incredible amount of time. Downgrade the paper. Get some pulpy old stuff, newsprint. Make, these comics as cheap as humanly possible. Disposable, like a newspaper, something a kid would read and then leave on the school bus because theyre not that attached to it unless they really, really love the story. The lower the price point, coupled with the wide availability we’ve already talked about, would draw in new people. You got to make it. And this is the best way to put it, a cheap little impulse buy. Something you don’t have to think about, something you see, like, oh, I could use a good story like that right now. Kris, what do you think?

Kris: Yeah, absolutely. I love this. It helps reduce the cost, and so it gives you lower prices for your customers. That’s simple supply and demand. You know, you’re making economical, decisions that are sound, and then you can offer at a low price for your customers. I then extended it a little bit further. Like if for your main issues, if you’re using the cheaper paper, the cheaper resources, you’re saving costs there. You can focus those premium resources on trade paperbacks and special editions for the big time collectors. So those people who are in it to collect and really want their pretty stuff, you can save that for the special editions traits. Something that kind of just jogged my memory, like when you were talking, just now, is the smell of an old comic that, that old paper, like I have, like, the x Men did that, the special issue heroes for hope back in the eighties for like, famine in Africa. And just like, taking that out of, it’s one of the few, you know, actual paper comics I have taking that out of, you know, the, the board and bag and just like, the look of that, the retro feel of it is so great. And if we return to something like that, I think that could be a, ah, real home run for some people who find that aesthetically pleasing.

Dave: Oh, totally retro is totally in right now. across the board, old stuff seems to constantly be coming back. Fashion, video games. I know there’s a big thriving market now for, for 2d video games. We have all that power under the hood in the Xbox one X and the Ps four pro. There’s a whole new video game generation coming. And still, there’s so much love for pixel art and pixel art games. I don’t see any problem with, tapping into that retro market. I remember the smell of old comic books you’re exactly right. It brings so much nostalgia. It’s such a unique experience to hold, one of those comic books, you know? And I know coloring techniques were different back then, and you have to take that into account. But, you know, for the most part, those files, when they. When they reprint, older comics, they generally upgrade the colors and stuff. They wouldn’t really have to do that if they’re just reprinting them, you know, old school.

Kris: Yeah.

The industry needs to focus more on kids, less on adults

Dave: All right, Chris, what is, your next idea to save the comic book market?

Kris: All right, last on my list is the youth movement. We’ve heard it in so many different mediums that the youth is the future. And I feel like if you really want to grow your readership, you’ve got to focus on the kids. They’re going to be your future customers in years and decades to come, so why not try to focus on them? If you’re focusing all respect to my friends who are in their fifties and they’re collectors, we love you. But if you want to grow towards the future, then you really need to focus on making it marketable to kids. so I think you should get a free comic with a toy or an action figure. If you get a Marvel legends, you know, character, you know, let’s say if I purchase a Peter Parker Spider man, put one of those seminal issues, put ASM 50 in there, put web of Spider Man 38 for my, you know, Spidey friends, you know. So I think that’s a good tie in that cross promotion that we talked about earlier, earlier, you should.

And I also previously referenced this in one of our previous points. Bribe kids to read. We have to do it as educators. Bribe these kids to read. Give them incentives. Give them a rewards program. Now, Marvel does have Marvel insider, but it is not the most user friendly thing. Make it super simple. I remember when we were kids in the nineties, I don’t know if they had this in Germany, but we had, like, the Pizza Hut book club. If I read this many books, I got a free personal pan pizza. My dad hated it because I went to go see my dad every other weekend. We’d have to go to Pizza Hut, and he’d have to pay for his pizza, but mine was free. So figure out something to get these kids reading. and then finally, as a father and as a, ah, middle school teacher, I know how important Fortnite is to the youth of this nation and the world at large. Find ways to integrate with Fortnite. Now, my kids came running to me a couple weeks ago. Poppy poppy, look, Deadpool’s on Fortnite. So just keep doing that and further integrate it, but find a way to connect it to the books as well. So if you purchase this v buck battle pass, or whatever they call it, I don’t know. I’m a gamer, but I’m not a fortnight gamer. If you purchase this skin or this character, then it comes with a free comic and, you know, it’s something. So figure out how to get the kids involved.

Dave: Yeah. When I saw that you had put, bringing in the youth on your list, for this talk, I knew that this was going to be something that we’re going to be talking about for a while. So I went digging a little bit, and it seems to me that the comic book industry is not the most reflective. They don’t seem to be always very interested in who their readers are. and so there’s not a lot of information out there. But I did find that DC comics did a retailer survey, when they launched a new 52. And, in February of 2012, they released the results of that. And there’s a whole bunch of interesting data points in there about what readers were interested in and what they were planning on buying. But the most interesting and striking thing to me was the age groups that responded. The age groups that comic book retailers were interacting with. Only one to 2% of respondents were between the ages of 13 and were 18 to 24. 37% to 42% were between 25 and 34 years old. And 27% to 35% were between 35 and 44 years old. The comic book audience is very clearly aging. And I think part of the problem is that much of the content isn’t necessarily aimed at kids anymore. Comics. The, publishers know that their audience is aging. So instead of trying to create more product for a younger audience, they’re now skewing their product for, for an older audience, because that’s what they have left. And in return, now, a lot of products aren’t right for kids anymore. I remember a big teen Titans fan and Sean McKeever wrote an issue of Teen Titans where there was this cute little dog, Wonder Dog, and he transformed at the end of the issue in this big twist into a hulking monster and tears apart one of the characters in this huge bloody and gory fashion. This is 2008. Two years before that, in 2006, the finale of the Teen Titans cartoon aired on Cartoon Network, one of the most popular adaptations. Now, imagine being a fan of the cartoon. You go to a comic book shop, you see, oh, my gosh, there’s an issue of Teen Titans. You pick it up, and that’s what you’re greeted with. We need to invest into the kind of stories that, you know, kids will be interested in. That doesn’t mean that the comic books for the older audience need to go away, but there needs to be a much more concerted effort to have content that is also good for the kids. Comic books used to be much more all ages. The kind of stuff like, you know, Disney, Pixar, that young and old could enjoy. And, and there is not some. There’s not anything wrong with having that approach sometimes to draw in a new audience. This also goes back to the whole bang for your buck thing. For, nearly $5, you get ten or 15 minutes of entertainment from reading a comic book. A kid today will go onto YouTube and get endless entertainment for free. For a $60 aaa video game, they can have maybe 100 or 120 hours of entertainment for some of the larger games. So, again, it’s hard to compete for kids attention. You and I know this as educators, reading comic books provides very little bang for your buck.

Kris: Yep. Yeah, I totally agree with you there. so these have been our six strategies and thoughts on how to save the, comic book industry to improve sales and give it some positive momentum, momentum heading into the future. When we return, we will end with our final segment and our nerd commendations for this week.

Nerd Commendation: Batgirl by Bryan Q. Miller

All right, ladies and gents, we are back with our final segment, our nerd commendations for episode two. Dave, you’re up first. What do you got for us this week?

Dave: Yeah, for me, I think, this segment is a lot about drawing attention, to things that maybe people aren’t aware of or that went underappreciated. And so I wanted to talk a little bit about Batgirl, volume three. Batgirl, volume three launched in 2009 and was written by Brian Q. Miller. He was actually a former writer on the CW television show Smallville. the book threw DC comic fans, ah, pretty much a curve ball in that it starred Stephanie Brown as Batgirl. Now, a little bit of background for those of you that don’t know all that much about Batgirl. The very first Batgirl was obviously Barbara Gordon. she’s the daughter of police commissioner James Gordon, who was an ally of Batman. but at this time, she was not actually Batgirl anymore. She was serving as a character called Oracle. She had been, left in a wheelchair due to an attack by the Joker and reinvented herself as sort of an information broker for superheroes. Cassandra Cain became the second Batgirl she was raised, from childhood to be an assassin and was taken under Batman’s wing and redeemed. Cassandra Cain carried a solo series for 70 some issues. Stephanie Brown, on the other hand, who would become the third Batgirl, was introduced as the spoiler in the pages of Robin back in the nineties. She was generally portrayed as well meaning, but inept and madly in love with Robin. she served briefly as Robin herself, then accidentally started a gang war and apparently had been killed off. As you know, happens to every superhero at some point. Now along comes Brian Q. Miller, and for 24 issues, he turned in what I consider to be one of the best Batgirl books ever. He strikes a lighthearted, fun filled tone as Stephanie grows into the role of Batgirl, forms a strong bond with oracle. The characterization is top notch. The threats are good, old fashioned, street level Gotham stuff. The art is great. Some of the artists on the run included, Lee Garbett, Pere Perez and Dustin Nguyen. it’s just a very, very fun series and in a lot of way, harkens back to some of the more, more classic comic books that felt a little bit more all ages y. Subsequently, the series was cancelled to make room for the new 52 and Barbara Gordon returned to the role of Batgirl. I was not horribly enthused about this decision. A, because I, thought Batgirl volume three was absolutely fantastic. and two, because I think Barbara Gordon was a better character as orc, somebody who, added much needed representation. So, ultimately, this particular run of Brian Cumiller has been collected now in two trade paperbacks, each collecting one year of the series. Batgirl, Stephanie Brown, volume one and volume two. And if you’re looking for a good, light hearted, heart warming, even fun, then I would highly recommend this series.

Kris: That’s fantastic. Thanks for that recommendation.

There is something deeply hopeful in Stephanie Brown as written by Miller

What is it that you would say, most stands out about this character that makes it so enjoyable for you?

Dave: It’s fascinating. She, in some ways, has a little bit of a superman in her not inability, but that never give up attitude. There is something very deeply hopeful in Stephanie Brown as written by Brian Qmiller that I found refreshing, particularly in the bat family, where so many of the characters are always dark and brooding on rooftops. And she’s so upbeat and hopeful and can do. And she gets knocked down a lot. she’s, you know, kind of growing into the role of being Batgirl, but she doesn’t quit. She learns from her mistakes and she’s constantly growing. And that’s. That’s not something you see very often in comic books anymore. I really enjoyed that aspect of it.

Nerd Commendation: History of the Marvel Universe by Wair and Rodriguez

Now, Chris, what is your recommendation for the week?

Kris: my recommendation for this week is the history of the Marvel universe by writer Mark Wade, and, art done by Javier Rodriguez. it features 80 years of comic history told, through a seamless tale and six issues, to set the scene, just some background, a synopsis. Franklin, Richards, son of, Reed and Sue, who is one of my personal favorite characters, in the, Marvel universe, is at the end of time, at the end of this current universe with Galactus. And basically, he gets Galactus to tell him, through six issues, the history of the Marvel universe. And it gives you a, like, a line by line, panel by panel, this happened. This happened. This happened throughout 80 years of Marvel history. It is single handedly the most beautiful comic book, art that I’ve ever seen. Javier Rodriguez turns in like a masterpiece, and I am not overusing that phrase. It’s the most beautiful thing I’ve ever seen. Five of the six issues are on Marvel Unlimited, and I just got yesterday, a trade paperback for $20 on Amazon, which I was excited enough to find for $20. $20. That’s pretty good for a trade. My kids were like, daddy, daddy, there’s a big package at the door. I opened it expecting a regular size trade paperback. It is gigantic. It is like two trades stacked on top of one another. So essentially, you’re getting poster sized art with every page, and it’s simply fantastic. And it’s one of the most beautiful pieces of media that I’ve ever seen. So complete shouts to mark Wade, who is one of my favorite writers, and I know he has a special place in your heart as well. And then Javier Rodriguez. Javier Rodriguez truly just absolutely could not say enough about how beautiful this is. Now, another reason, that I would highly recommend this for people who love deep dives and who are completely analytical in their fandoms. At the end of each issue is a complete index of every event that was referenced and exactly which issues of what series you can go look at. So if they referenced, Fantastic Four, number 24, for example, it tells you this happened, then go see this issue if you want a further read up on it. And as the complete deep dive nerd that I am, the completionist 100 percenter that I am, that is absolutely music to my ears. And they did that at the end of each issue. And. And I was looking at the trade. I was like, do they have those beautiful annotations and indexes, and sure enough, the last ten to 15 pages are complete indexes for all of that. So it’s a beautiful, beautiful trade. I could not recommend it, enough.

Dave: Yeah. I was actually thrilled to see that you had this on your list as a recommendation. I’ve read this as well, and although I’m not as well versed in Marvel history as some, I really enjoyed it. Wade does such a good job just synthesizing all this information. It, could have been a really dull sort of, like, recap miniseries, but instead, it just. It’s just gorgeous. The art, is just mesmerizing, and there’s so many details going on in it. I really, really enjoyed it. One nitpick. They did not mention that Spider man was married for a while. The editorial mandate not referenced that Spider man was ever married continues on, which I think is regrettable. since most of my youth, he was actually married to Mary Jane Watson, and that’s the Spider man that I’m most familiar with.

Kris: Somewhere, Joe Cassada is laughing evilly in his chair.

Dave: I feel like that, yes, that might be what’s happening right now. Yeah. But, Wade, you are absolutely right. Holds a special place in my heart. His, Justice League year one and his superman birthright are fantastic. And anytime I can read some mark, Wade, that is definitely high on my list to read. So that’s a fantastic recommendation.

Call to Action

Kris: All right, ladies and gentlemen, thanks for joining us for this week’s episode of Nerd by word. we look forward to conversing with you again. If you have any questions, comments, ideas for us to tackle in future episodes, please feel free to tweet at us nerd bywords, Instagram page, erdbyword as well. And, we also have our email is nerdbywordmail.com dot.

Dave: Also? Very exciting. We are starting to get, this podcast up and running on several different platforms. we are, for example, now in Apple podcasts. So feel free to give us a quick, shout out there, drop a review, and a rating. We’d love to, see your opinion on how we’re doing so far and what we can improve.

Kris: Absolutely. Thanks for stopping by, and we’ll see you next week.

Dave: The nerd by word is produced by two nerds, Kris and Dave. They encompass all aspects of the nerd multiverse. The theme music was written by Al Jimenez. Our show art features original art by Ash Redesign, as well as public domain comic panels. Find us online@nerdbyword.com on Twitter nerdbyword. And send questions and comments to nerdbywordmail.com.