Episode 006 – An Exclusive sit-down with “Parallel Lives” Writer Jason Douglas

Welcome to a super-sized interview with comic book writer Jason Douglas

Dave: Welcome back to another episode of the Nerd by Word podcast. This is Dave. I’m here with Kris, and we have a very special episode for you today. We are going to have an interview with comic book writer Jason Douglas here in just a few minutes. But before we get to our big talk for this episode, let’s go ahead and start off with some, nerd news.

The Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles are getting rebooted again

Chris, what do you have for us?

Kris: I promise you that this is a new story, Dave. The teenage, Mutant Ninja Turtles are getting rebooted again.

Dave: Is it just another Tuesday or something?

Kris: It’s another day that ends in y, that’s for sure. so, we are getting another teenage mutant ninja Turtle movie, but it’s going to be animated. And this is the first, cg theatrical production since 2000, seven’s TMNt, which was okay, if memory serves. I haven’t seen it since then. some interesting things that I saw in this article. I’m reading, Jamie Levette’s article on Comicbook.com. Nickelodeon, is of course, you know, the group releasing it. They’re working with point grey pictures. and the big name that you would recognize from point Gray Pictures is Seth Rogen himself. So that’s interesting to me. So I’ve always been a fan of his work. His comedic humor, you know, whatever. His work has always landed pretty well with me, so I’m interested to see what goes there. But, also tied to that project are Evan Goldberg, and James Weaver is the producer. the, director is Jeff Rowe, known for his work on Gravity Falls, which I have not watched, but I’ve heard great things about. And it’s really, really funny for all ages and connected. the writer of the script, is going to be Brendan O’Brien, and he’s done work on neighbors sorority rising. And Mike and Dave need wedding dates, which are pretty mature films, if I understand that correctly. So I’m interested to see where this goes. I was sad to learn in reading this article that, live action films, of the Ninja turtles are still planned out with Michael Bay. So I was not happy to see that. but I guess that’s still, in the works as well. so very interesting stuff.

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles is a very flexible franchise

TMNT has been, you know, I referenced this in our first episode. It’s been like my first thing that I fell in love with that that was considered nerdy. So I followed it throughout the years. so I love the first two live action films, Secret of the ooze. I know is dogged a little bit, but it’s my personal favorite. three was. Three was okay. but I really dug. My kids got into the 2012 series that just ended on Nickelodeon. I really thought that that was a really fun one. I haven’t seen rise of the teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. I know that it made some headlines with some of the changes and the team dynamic and things like that, but I haven’t checked that one out yet. But, yeah, so teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles is getting yet another story. Dave, what do you think?

Dave: Well, you know, on the one hand, more tmnt is good by me. it’s one of my favorite franchises as well. you might remember a few episodes ago, I highly recommended the IDW TMNT series. I think it’s one of the best things on the stands right now as far as comic books go. So, big fan there.

Seth Rogen’s production company behind upcoming TMNT animated film

Now, I noticed looking at the press release that, was put out along with this story that, there’s a lot of focus in the press release on, oh, you know, we have Seth Rogen’s production company, and it’s going to be very humorous. And, you know, it seemed to be very much focused on humor. And I think TMNT is best when you play it straight with a layer of humor that comes naturally from some of the character interactions. It should not be first and foremost a comedy. Now, I don’t think Seth Rogen being involved necessarily means it’s gonna be a comedy. If I remember correctly, his production company was also involved with the new Halloween movie from a couple of years ago, as well as the preacher tv series on AMC. Neither one of those were primarily comedies, but the press release seemed to very much harp on the notion of humor. so I don’t think Seth Rogen’s involvement necessarily telegraphs that this TMNT reboot is a comedy. I’m cautiously optimistic because that production company has done some good work. The preacher tv show was a decent adaptation in parts, and the new Halloween movie was quite good. So, I’m cautiously optimistic. I will say the sooner we can get away from the Michael Bay teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles universe, the better. We just, I think before we started recording, I referred to it as nasty. these character designs for the TMNt are not very good. The writing hasn’t been particularly sharp, and it really, in a lot of ways, doesn’t quite feel like teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. So here’s hoping that this animated feature will do well, and with a little luck, it will lead to a new direction in the live action franchise as well.

Kris: Yeah, absolutely. I agree with that. And I’m reading that IDW series on your recommendation. I’m thoroughly enjoying it. I’m reading it on, comixology Unlimited. I think I’m on, like, the third or fourth volume that’s been collected. So I’m thoroughly enjoying that and can’t wait to, you know, binge all the way up to current because there’s some exciting things that I’ve seen. But, I totally agree with you on the. On the outlook on this. I’m hoping as well, my tastes have kind of been altered in recent years. Being a new fan of like, the Clone wars and Star Wars Rebels and stuff, and opening myself up, I was kind of closed minded, but when I opened myself up, I thoroughly enjoyed those. So I’m much more open to animated things. and as far as the Michael Bay films go, I mean, what else can we say? I think we touched on this two episodes ago when we talked about, you know, source material not necessarily being a be all, end all, but when you lose the core of what the characters are, I feel like that’s where you go by the wayside. And I truly feel like, you know, the. The creative team behind those films completely does not understand. You know, they put Megan Fox as April O’Neal, and, it just. It’s an absolute dud for me. So, as someone who is truly passionate about this, I’m optimistic about this, this new feature. As you said, you know, he’s done some serious stuff as well. And, you know, I’ve heard good things about it, so I’m hopeful, about. About what we’re gonna see, just not the Michael Bay stuff. Please, just no more. No more. Enough.

Developers cite rising development costs as reason to raise game prices

Dave, what’s your nerd? Nerd, nerd news story for this week?

Dave: So, ash parish at gaming website Kotaku, had an interesting report, earlier this morning. so this kind of deals with the, upcoming video, game generation that’ll kick off with the PlayStation five and the Xbox Series X later this year. NBA two k 21 is, now available for pre order. And it is a cross generational game, which, means that there will be a version of this game released on current gen consoles, ps four and Xbox one. and there will also be, a next gen version. What’s interesting, though, and unlike, when you had cross generational games in the past, the next gen standard version of the game is going to be released with a suggested retail price. Of 69 99, which is a $10 jump from the standard $59.99 for most AAA games. The Xbox one and PlayStation four versions are going to be released at the standard $59.99. So now a lot of people in the gaming community are speculating that this is our first hint that in the next generation of video games, the long threatened rise in prices on games is going to finally come along. Price has long been a point of contention in the gaming industry. Developers cite rising, development cost as a reason that prices should be raised. And a lot of publishers argue the whole reason we have DLC and microtransactions is because games are so expensive to develop and keeping the price at $60 is unrealistic. So, on the one hand, I understand the necessity for a price increase if costs are rising on the game development side. On the other hand, the next generation is already looking to be pretty expensive, and a permanent increase on games, a new standard of $70 might be a road too far for many gamers. I know that I plan on, purchasing games primarily on the used market or digitally when it gets a really steep discount, even if that means that I have to wait maybe a year or more before I play some of the games that I’m interested in playing. ultimately, I would caution the gaming industry to be extremely careful with this because, if they price these kinds of things too high, it will ultimately affect their bottom line. And I do have the sinking feeling, and you can correct me if you disagree with this, Chris. Just because they’re planning on raising prices on games does not mean that microtransactions are going anywhere. I think a lot of publishers have come to rely on those as an, important income stream in their strategy. So it looks like we might, be paying more for games to begin with, in addition to downloadable content being released separately and microtransactions. Chris, what’s your thoughts on this?

Kris: Yeah, this is really troubling for me because I rely, I’ve said this in previous episodes and you just hinted at it, I rely on those deep digital discount, sales. you know, Microsoft has one going on right now with some games up to 80% off this week. so I heavily rely on that. And I had no qualms about buying an all digital Xbox one as my second unit for, you know, my personal use. so when I can get stuff for that cheap, you know, that’s what I rely on is being the head of household for a very large family. you know, that makes me a little bit uneasy. especially as you said with like these, you know, I’ve got a bunch of my own children that are fortnight crazy and every time they release a new season, every one of them on their own personal account needs a new battle pass or wants a new skin or wants v bucks or something like that. So there I understand, I guess in a sense where they’re coming from. But I find it very, very hard to believe that the video game sales are not a very lucrative thing already when you have so much content out there. I know that my household, they’re getting a large chunk of change. now one thing that gives me hope is I did see a report that Xbox is thinking about producing an s version of the new console that will be, you know, similar to the Xbox one s which I have two of, you know, and will be at a lower price point, but won’t have all the fancy shmansh features which I, which I said I think it was last episode that, you know, don’t really concern me because I have a standard television that I play them on. So so that gives me hope. If they do indeed release an s version of, you know, the new console then that gives me hope. But uptick in game prices? not so much.

Dave: Yeah, and ultimately I know as far as like graphical fidelity and all this, you know, that takes a lot of effort and it takes a lot of cash to develop those kinds of games. On the flip side though, if you release a game like for example the Witcher three, which literally has hundreds of hours of content, now I can see paying a little bit more for something like that. That’s literally going to keep you busy for the next two years or something if you’re a fairly busy person. Whereas you’re looking at a standard AAA release which might have 20 to 30 hours of gameplay and you want me to shell out $70 for that, I don’t think the value is there necessarily for that. Which is why like I said, primarily I do used discs and steep digital discounts and I think I’m going to continue to do that, which is regrettable because I think there’s been already some games shown that I would have a strong interest in getting when they first release. I know the sequel for Horizon Zero dawn is high up on my list of games that I just can’t wait to play. But if it’s going to release at $70, I will be waiting for that price to drop or until I can get a used copy at a discount. So that’s just where I’m at with the gaming situation.

Kris: I’ll tell you who loves a story like this is gamefly, where, you know, if they can keep their prices and I can rent a game. I did Redbox. I Redbox rent or redbox like, I rented, fallen order. I had beat it in two days. I had a weekend to myself. and I played fallen order and beat the campaign in two days. And it’s still, even with discounts on the digital. Microsoft, Microsoft digital store, it’s still $39, you know, and I was like, you know, I’m usually a hundred percent or completionist, but I’m not paying $39 just to go get some, you know, unlock some kits and find, you know, an extra poncho or something like that. So if you’re gonna charge $70 for a new game that I can beat in a couple of days, I might look at, you know, at other options.

Dave: Yeah, yeah, that’s exactly right. Well, that is it for the nerd news segment. for our current episode. stick around. After the break, we are going to be talking to comic book writer Jason Douglas about his new book, parallel.

Jason Douglas: Comics came first for me. I was the fan as a kid

Kris: All right, we are here, with Jason Douglas, writer of the comic book, graphic novel parallel. All right, Jason, so tell us what got you interested in writing comic books to start with?

Jason Douglas: So this gentleman has been, kind of a lifelong dream, but it was, very similar to some of the themes in the book, on the back burner for a long, long, long time, I came to actually writing this script, you know, taking that leap and writing my very first comic book, kind of in a very roundabout fashion. Comics, came first for me. Right. I was the fan as a kid, and even though I took my, my middle teen and early twenties break from, from reading and collecting comics, it was always the thing that I wanted to do. It was always a thing that was kind of just there in the back or closer to the front of my brain. But I started writing plays first. And that came through my day job of being a public school teacher for the last 20 years and starting a drama club in elementary school that I taught at and then at the middle school that I taught at. And I started writing plays and I started writing skits for young people and got a couple things published. And one summer when I took a break from writing a new play, it was like, well, I think this is something I can do and this is something that I’ve always wanted to do, and, I’ve said this before, but I had this kind of blissful ignorance, you know, where I didn’t. I didn’t know how hard or how different writing a comic script would be or was going to be than. Than writing a play, something for the stage. And so I just took that leap because it was always there as a desire and tried, it one summer. And I wrote the first half of parallel. I wrote the first 32 pages of, this story that eventually became the 64 page one shot. And, without the reference, without the, frame of reference, I should say, on how you do it or what happens after you do it, you know, with that kind of blissful ignorance, as I say, like, not knowing it was going to be hard, not knowing that I might not be able to do it, I just did it. Kind, of latching on to the childhood dream, piggybacking on this other thing that I knew I could do. And then it turned into this. Had I known a lot more than did I know now, had I known then what I know now, I don’t know. I don’t know if I would have been able to pull it off. But, that’s kind of how it started. And that’s where the genesis of writing this script, at least from an origin standpoint of why I thought I could do it and how long I wanted to do it, comes from.

Dave: It’s absolutely hilarious that you mentioned being a middle school teacher, because, you’re right now talking to two other middle school teachers.

Jason Douglas: Yes.

Kris: The fraternity gentlemen.

Jason Douglas: We need to form a club. I love it.

Dave: Yeah. So it’s just a whole bunch of middle school teachers hanging out, talking about comic books.

Douglas discusses his writing influences

So what. What are your biggest influences as a writer, do you think?

Jason Douglas: I read a lot and always have. Right. my childhood was split almost evenly between two things, and that would be staying inside, playing Star wars, and reading, going outside, and, like, living in the woods from dusk till dawn, like, building forts and traps so other people couldn’t come by and steal our. Destroy our fort. And so a lot, a lot of reading. A lot of reading. And eventually I got into comics, and a lot of reading comics. So there’s, there’s, there’s. I think there’s that, like, through osmosis or that subconscious influence of. Of tons of writers and tons of different styles and things like that when you don’t even know it. But I do know I can. I can name, straight up. While it’s not necessarily a stylistic thing, definitely my biggest influence, from a writerly perspective, comes from Neil Gaiman, who is a master of all kinds of different writing, but mostly got his start, or at least got famous in comics. I had the honor of meeting him twice. and at the first meeting, I actually got to talk to him. This is when I was an elementary school teacher, and my kids were, we would listen to coraline on CD by candlelight at the end of the year. It was like a big end of the year kind of celebration. He loved that my kids wrote him letters. He wrote back, signed a bunch of stuff for us. And, one of the things he told me, and I know he said this publicly a bunch of times as well, which is really just an inspiration for, I think, your first question, which is, like, getting started and doing this thing that was a little bit scary or could have been a little bit daunting had I thought about it differently. he always gives advice to new writers. The way you write a novel is you write a novel, right? The way you write a comic is you write a comic. And he doesn’t make any promises of if it’s going to be good or not, but what he does say that I kind of like, and he has a much better turn of phrase for it, is, if you don’t write it, then it doesn’t exist, right? and if you do, I mean, there’s no promises of what comes next, but at least it exists, and at least you have taken that, that big, huge first step forward. And so, like, that’s always been, that’s always hung over my brain. And, like, when he told me that face to face, that was long before I got the courage to take that first step myself, but, never left me. And has always been like that. That kind of advice or that kind of, it’s always been on my mind since then. And I would say he’s probably the biggest influence in a lot of ways, but, like, I was, I’m one of those. I’m one of those people who. It doesn’t matter, like, the things that I love, like, pop culture wise, whether it be movies or music or comics or whatever, I’m one of those people who, the first thing I fall in love with will always be my favorite. Right. You know what I mean? So, like, so, like, I know the Beatles are the greatest band that has ever lived, but I got to Led Zeppelin first, so they are my favorite band, right? I know that there are better movies than umpire strikes back in the universe, but because that was my first love. It will always be the best movie in the universe. And as far as writing goes, are there technically better writers than Stephen King out there? Of course there are, but I found the dude first, and so he will always be my favorite writer. Again, not necessarily a lot of stylistic input, but definitely, if you’re talking about, like, you know, something that soaks into you and, and you’re doing it subconsciously in your own writing, it’s got to be him, because I’ve read the most Stephen King out of anybody I’ve ever read. So, those two are definitely, like, my two biggest literary heroes, and have the influence, at least in that respect. right now in the comic industry, I will follow Jeff Lemire to the ends of the earth and, read anything that that guy writes. Absolutely.

Dave: You said the magic words, which are Stephen and King.

Jason Douglas cites Stephen King as a source of inspiration

So, yes, we, we better keep moving forward before this devolves into the, are we gonna get on that?

Jason Douglas: Are we gonna talk about, are we gonna talk about how I dip my toe in with eyes of the dragon when I was twelve and I was like, oh, that was great. That was fun. And then I read, in the second half of being twelve years old, I read it, which is, regardless of the fact that the characters are twelve years old, for half the book is drastically inappropriate for a twelve year old to read. Absolutely. For six months. That’s my Stephen King origin story, which is ridiculous. Yeah.

Dave: for me, it was pet sematary. That was the first one I got ahold of. I did not sleep well at ten. No, that, that was a mess.

Comics are notoriously difficult to break into, especially for writers

Kris: All right. Jason, now, comics are notoriously difficult to break into, especially for writers. what was your big break? How, how did you get to this point where you’re getting a, ah, one shot published here?

Jason Douglas: So this is another. You know what? This ties in really nicely with the idea of coming from m, at least on the profession side, coming from a place with no frame of reference. Right. again, had I known now what you know, what I knew, or had I known then what I do know now about the difficulty of that, again, so daunting, a little bit scary. I don’t know if I would have been put off by it. So, like I told you, I wrote that 1st 32 pages, right? I wrote that 1st 30 pages, kind of like in a bubble, right? Where, where this ignorance bubble surrounded me. Just saying, you know, I sat there in the summer. There was no, there was no publisher attached, there was no plans attached. It was just like, I’m going to see if I can tell this story, in a medium I love, but not one structurally that I’ve ever tried before. Right? So I do that, and I get to this halfway point in the book, and before I type another page, before I start exploring what comes next, I’m like, okay, well, now it’s time to start poking a little bit and trying to see what is the possibility of what can come next. And what I discovered. I think it’s the 21st century. So the first thing you do is you, of course, go online and you start poking around and seeing what you can see. And what I found was less than encouraging. Right. if I looked up 30 different publishers, 29 of them did not accept unsolicited pitches. And for the few that did, they certainly don’t want your script, right. They most likely want art. And if they want any words at all, it’s maybe a pitch, maybe a couple of pages with art attached. Not something I was capable of doing, unless you want, horrible, horrible renditions that would really demean whatever words I had typed because of my lack of artistic talent. And. But again, not know. You know, that was just the first poke. Not knowing that that is the norm, just knowing that that’s the first roadblock I hit. I didn’t quite give up. And so what I did instead is I kind of regressed to what I knew how to do, which is, I mean, you guys, as educators, know that, as advanced as some schools can be, technology wise, we’re always several decades behind on most cutting edge everything, right? We’re a bit archaic. I resisted, like, 15 years ago, I resisted getting a whiteboard in my classroom because I was like, no, there’s nothing wrong with my chalkboard. Forget about a smart board. I like the chalkboard. and so what I did, knowing that Motor City comic Con was coming up fairly soon, right? That was in May, a couple years ago. I went into my classroom and grabbed the file folder, the manila folder, typed, up the pitch and the COVID letter, and put the script in and put, you know, all the things that you would put. you know, partly what I researched about how you pitch a comic script, but apparently not in the 21st century. partly how you would apply for a job in previous decades. Put the colored paperclips straight out of my desk on the thing, and I took it to Motor City, and I kind of walked around and, like, you know, here’s a small publisher, here’s a small publisher, and, you know, kismet, karmic, whatever. Dumb luck right. Ignorance allowing me to just stride right up to the first beautiful booth I saw, which was source point press, gorgeous booth. Walk up. Walk right up to the person who catches my eye first because, not because I knew that he was the co founder, editor in chief, and president of Source Point Press, but because Travis McIntyre has the most glorious, big, bushy red beard. And I was like, oh, that looks like a cool guy. And I walk right up to the co founder, and I’m like, hello. And I hand him this packet, and you could see the kind of confusion on his face. And then he, like, looks at it and, like, he gets a smirk on his face, and I’m just, you know, I’m not standing there. It’s not, it’s not like, it’s not fake smugness. It’s not fake confidence. It’s, merely m the confidence of ignorance, right? Merely that confidence of, I don’t know. This is not how you do it. And he’s like, I like the cut of your jib, though. I do think you’re trying to, trying to pitch me a comic as if this were 1971. Cause, like, you know, he likes all the paper clips, and it’s like, what is this? But he glanced at it. He liked it. You come back tomorrow. I’m going to read this tonight, and we’ll talk. And I came back tomorrow. And against the odds of how this works in the industry, right? This is not me doing a Kickstarter. This is not me struggling in that self publishing thing for a decade before. This is me through a little bit of dumb luck, through ignorance, but, but with a pure heart about it, too. I wasn’t trying to cut a corner. I didn’t know better. And the product was of a sort where he was like, I like this. can you go home and write me the second half in my head? Because I come up as a comic fan, I saw issues, and he’s like, no, this is a one shot. It’s, 64 pages. Can you go home and write me another 32 pages? And I lied and said, yes, of course I can. not knowing if I could or couldn’t, I did that thing, you know, that Hollywood cliche about, like, can you ride a horse? And the actor is like, yes, I can ride a horse. They’ve never even seen a horse to get the job. That’s exactly how I answer that question. Yes, of course I can write you a 64 page comic. I will get right on that, sir. And so, like, my origin for this is, I mean, I love it. It’s so, it’s so lucky. But I’ve been told to be careful about that because it’s not like I stumbled into it without putting in a lot of effort to craft a story that, that sold. Do you know what I mean? I don’t want to, but the dumb luck part of it undersells the fact that I worked my butt off up to that point and then worked my butt off maybe five times that hard from that day till today till the actual, you know, the point where it’s in comic book stores. So I don’t want to sell that short. But it’s also not the typical way that this gets done. And in that respect, I will not back away from the fact that I am very, very fortunate and lucky to have it play out this way.

Dave: Absolutely. That’s, I have to say, that took some guts to just walk up to a publisher and hand them.

Jason Douglas: But like I said, but like I said, I think I’m not.

Extroverts vs Introverts in the world of writing

So, so I consider myself, an extroverted introvert, right? Like if I make the choice, you know, before I started writing plays, I did a couple of years where I was like doing community theater, right when I was first couple years teaching. And you could put me on stage in front of 500 people, like a sold out show, and I’ve got 500 lines and on stage for an hour and a half and I, and you know, stage fright, yes. Nerves beforehand. But once I’m on stage, no problem. You catch me off guard and say at a party and say, go talk to that stranger. And it’s not a choice I made. You might see me curled up in the corner in a ball saying, take me home, take me home. and my point of telling you that is like, had I known who I was about to go talk to, had I known that that is not the way you do it, and 99 times out of 100, you’re probably going to get rejected. I doubt I would have had the courage to even approach him.

Dave: Approaching the big boss of source point press from there moving forward.

What it’s like to work with a small publisher like Source Point Press

What was it like to actually, work with a small publisher like source point press?

Jason Douglas: It has been amazing, I think, along this process, and it’s been a long one. You know what, that’s one of the most eye opening things about this whole thing is that, I’ve been looking at this from day one. Once I stepped out of the bubble that I was in, where I was in that bubble writing that 1st 32 pages where I am just cut off from the world. This has nothing to do with actual publishing comics at all. This is just a story I’m trying to tell right the minute I step out of that bubble, I have gotten this gift, this treat of being able to really, really satisfied the fanboy in me. Because, like, what I’m getting to do is like, like, my fandom has not just diminished one iota in the last couple of years. The thing that’s changed is, as I’m still loving comics, as I’m still reading a ton of comics, I get to actually see the sausage getting made. I get to see the backstage process go along with front row seat as my stuff is getting produced. So as soon as, like, that stuff kicked into gear, as soon as Travis said, well, I’ve got an artist in mind, right? And that artem, that artist is Adam Ferris. He is up and coming. He’s very talented. He’s going to send you some character sketches, a couple of page layout things, just as a test or whatever. Like, as soon as that happens, I’m like, oh, that’s something that happens in comics, right? When the writer and artists meet. And it wasn’t so much like, as thrilled as I was that the art that came back was of this character, I envisioned Landon in parallel. I was just as excited that I got to see that thing that I read about in the back matter of, like, my favorite trades. Like, when Ed Brubaker says something in the back of a trade says, and then I got, and then Michael lurk sent me the thing, and I was like, oh, God, I’m getting to experience that. and then source point specifically, it’s amazing because source point, as far as indie publishers go, in the last couple of years, have they blown up? They’ve gone from a power on the, convention circuit, for quite some years, and then busted out into previews and are putting out nine to ten books a month in previews and winning awards and expanding rapidly and different departments and stuff. And yet, because of their origin, is a very tight knit family, that dynamic remains. So, one of the most amazing things about this whole process has been, like, being part of that source point family. The support is amazing. The people you get to work with is amazing. And, it’s been so cool to be part of that community, because it’s not. I mean, the comics in them, of themselves, I think, is a really nice community in all aspects of that word. But, like, even inside a source point, it’s such a family oriented business as far as how they do business and how they support each other and the product that they put out and the time and effort they put into it that, like, I couldn’t be more happy and honored to be a part of it, honestly.

Douglas reflects on working relationship with artist Adam Ferris

Kris: You referenced, Adam Ferris, the book’s artist, and a little bit of your working relationship. Take us, a little, a step further with that. What’s it like working with him? Kind of give us a peek behind the curtain. What does that working relationship look like for the two of you through that process?

Jason Douglas: So that it was, it was really, really cool. he’s talented, and he had, I mean, coming into it, he had more experience than I did. Right. he had more experience not only as somebody who produces comics, but like, in all aspects of the business, too. his, nonprofit book that he put out, this past year called the good Fight charity book with a lot of big names attached. I mean, he was basically the project manager on that as well as drawing stuff for it. so, I mean, he knows the business in and out in a way that I didn’t. So that was always helpful, but kind, of another dream come true aspect. The fanboy behind the scenes, getting to do that thing.

The give and take between writer and artist

The other thing that I write in the back matter is like when the writer, the two things, the two things. Number one, I got to do that magical thing that you get to do in comics where I got to write for an artist. So, like, I’ve mentioned a couple of times that 1st 32 pages is written. It’s just me. But I don’t start writing the second half until I’m already interacting with Adam and see what Adam can do with the story and with the characters and with his style of art that he’s chosen for this story. So, like when, like in the second half of parallel, I really got to, there were scenes that I tweaked. There are things that I added, things that I took out that were just specifically because I knew that he was going to be able to draw the heck out of it. Right. there’s a slightly deeper noirish feel. There are, there’s a bit more emphasis on darkness. And it goes with the story because the story does crescendo, like the, of the story crescendos. And, the risk that Landon puts himself in, as the story goes along to try to get what he wants, a second chance in life, that was naturally growing anyway. But knowing what Adam could do, I wrote for him a little bit more. And I think it really, I mean, it really kind of just comes alive in that second half. And you could see us working together, if you’re, like, reading between the panels, if you will. the other thing that he did, which happens a lot in the writer artist relationship, is he becomes, in a lot of ways, like a co writer too. You know, if I am overwriting something, if I am trying to, because I got to cram that story in because I am overly verbose. I don’t know if you can tell this, which with each answer I’m giving you today being, like, 45 minutes long, there might have been, there might have been a few pages in the script that just, I mean, you know, trying to cram, trying to cram eight panels with five word balloons in each panel onto a page that really needed five panels, do you know what I mean? And he, and he does that great thing that artists can do and are almost invariably right where they just, they just cut it back and then they send it back to you. You go, now you deal with it, right? And, you know, once you get past that initial, like, precious ruffled feathers thing for half a second, you go, oh, yeah, it’s way better. And he was really, really good at that. I loved, I loved that thing. It’s like, it’s like, it feels to me like a lot of those cliches that I knew about it as a fan, but they end up being, like, a really magical part of the process. Like, when you can sit there and you can write a thing and see it in your head, and you’re like, oh, that’s good. And then somebody with this talent, with this fine motor, skill, talent, can make this thing that you saw and thought was perfect in your head, and somehow their reality of it is better than what you saw in your head. There is nothing more satisfying, I think, in comics, than that, because, I mean, how can you take something that is because, you know, I mean, greek philosophers always said that the perfection is in your head, and anything out in the real world has to be less than, and I saw this perfect scene in my head, and somehow Adam made it better. That’s, I think that’s magic. So I loved working.

Dave: That’s awesome.

Parallel has a distinctive black and white, almost a pencil sketch look

Now, parallel, has a really distinctive black and white, almost like a pencil sketch kind of look to it. why go in this sort of black and white pencil sketch direction for this story?

Jason Douglas: So that was, two things kind of happened with that. Number one, on the base level, that was chosen for me, okay? That was a decision that was made in editorial and above. This is going to be a black and white interior book. what kind of turns out once I knew that is, I think it really, really, really plays into thematically, the story is when you go black and white and this story is all about that great gray area in between. I think it really plays with the themes. there are parts in this book where I think about it, especially in the second half, where color would be a distraction, when things get darker and darker and Landon gets closer and closer in the story to making some pretty monumental and final decisions about where he’s going to go in his life, it is a black and white decision and I think that plays in really well. Adam also knocked it out of the park with that. He, experimented with some, shading and some gray wash kind of, techniques that he hadn’t even tried digitally before and ended up working out really, really nicely. There’s a lot of, One of the things I’m really most proud about the book is that some of the feedback that I’m getting from people who have read it is that they’re finding it pretty rereadable. and, you know, going back and finding clues in the art and in the script that make you think about different scenes differently. Especially once you read the ending upon second, maybe even third reading. And a lot of that is due to some of the things that Adam tried artistically, drawing things a little bit different. And most of those clues, most of those little Easter eggs isn’t quite quite the right word, but it’s close. most of those would not be clear had it been in color. It’s a. It’s very much like a gray shading kind of thing. And you pick up on that subtlety. probably only if it’s in black and white. So, like, I end up being very, very pleased with that. It gives, there’s a starkness to it that allows you. You can’t hide. There’s no hiding the themes of the book. There’s no bright to distract you from the bleakness of the story and then, depending on how you interpret it, maybe the light at the end of the tunnel. So I think it played really well.

Dave: I totally agree with that. I don’t think there’s enough black and white books on the market these days. when done well, black and white books are some of my absolute favorites. I was a big fan of, you know, the black and white look of even the walking dead or something like that. So.

Jason Douglas: Yeah, absolutely. I agree.

The origin story of the “Parallel” variant covers

Kris: While we’re on the topic of art, I personally am a sucker for variant covers. And you’ve got two different variant covers that are just visually arresting. Tell us how that happened.

Jason Douglas: Well, it’s funny. I don’t know how that happened, because it’s not, I mean, okay, so here you go again. every step of the way, like the fanboy me, right? So, like, my personal, consumption of comics over the decades has been pretty evenly balanced. I am, I walk this line down the middle of 50% reader and 50% collector and try to balance those two. And I know sometimes those camps are a bit like this, and I try to walk that middle line. And, so, like, as different aspects of this process popped up, it’s always just thrilling to the, to the collector in me or thrilling to the reader in me or just thrilling to the comic nerd in me. And when I found out, and it’s kind of funny, like, I found out that shops were doing exclusives, right? It wasn’t, it wasn’t a plan from the beginning. It was shops that I had interacted with, had seen the, the PDF of the book, had read it, had liked it, wanted to be supportive, liked the story, and said, you know what? We’re doing an exclusive variant. they found the artist. Like, I got to sit back and, like, let’s. That happened to me, you know what I mean? Which is just, again, another kind of, not always how it works, but kind of a bit of magic that I got to experience. And, yeah, there’s the, there’s the Les Garner variant, the, ssco, the sanctum sanctorum comics and oddities variant, which, there was only 100 of them. There’s still a couple left. Those are almost gone, which has got that beautiful, I love the colors on that cover, and it’s like, it’s just shattered glass, and it’s, you’ve got, you’ve got other Landon on half of the shatters, and you’ve got our Landon in our world on the other half. And it’s putting together the whole piece through the shattered pieces of glass. I love that cover. And then the sold out cover, the, soc variant, and then there’s like a foil variant, too, which is the, Esteban cover, which is like a Donnie Darko tribute. but with the things coming, it’s got the guitars coming up. Yeah, that one, that one is just, it’s a pretty stunning cover because it’s also kind of disturbing in a creepy cover. And that one. So, again, like, me getting to nerd out and have the things that I’ve always been a part of or admired about the comic industry. Like, just, like, happened to my book. So just the other day, I get a text, saying, hey, there’s a live auction going on. So you know how that one, those two variants are sold out. There’s a live auction going on, and the book is selling out. Like in, you know, the variant cover is selling out really fast for twice the price of retail. And it’s like that. I’m in the aftermarket now, you know, that kind of thing. And obviously it doesn’t affect sales. Obviously it doesn’t do anything, you know, for, you know, my contract or anything like that. And I couldn’t care less because I’m a comic fan. And, like, how, cool is it that the thing you made, like, somebody’s like, oh, I need that for twice what the guy previously had paid for. So it just blows my mind. but yeah, my book’s got variant covers. Are you freaking kidding me? Unbelievable. Unbelievable.

Dave: Most of the mainstream comic book industry focuses very much on fantastical things. Even in Image comics, when they don’t do particularly superhero stories and that kind of stuff, they do still, you know, science fiction, fantasy, that sort of thing. Your story, on the other hand, is very much, although it has a little bit of a Sci-Fi tinge, feels very deeply human. Why try to focus more on the real world, aspects instead of leaning into the fantastical in your story?

Jason Douglas: I think it’s a great question because my gut says I don’t. I don’t know if I could write something well without that as a starting point. Right. I truly think that the most successful, even if you look at a straight up mainstream superhero book, one of the reasons why X Men became a phenomenon under Claremont, right, so late seventies and definitely into the eighties, is because so many, at the core, so many people connected with the character, so many people connected with what the characters might or might not be going through. Right. does it have its limits, limit limitations because of the serialized nature of it, because of the business aspect of, because of the juggernaut that is Marvel or DC and the apparatus that has basically had survived for 80 years. Because it’s designed to survive for 80 years? Sure. But I think at the core, like, the stuff that survives past a, month or even past a week on the racks, people got to be able to relate to it and people relate to the stuff that is universal, right? So, like, parallel is all about, you know, deferred dreams. It’s all about time passing and you looking and waking up one day and going, oh, my God, those dreams that I thought I had forever to accomplish, like that time is now gone, and maybe I don’t get a second chance, and now my life is this stagnant cesspool of, depression. And where did all those chances go? Now, I like a fun, dark story just as much as the next person. So the way we explore it in there is by this other version of Landon, who’s in this situation that so many people, I think, can relate to. Right? I mean, how many of us cannot sit there and sit there and absolutely say we didn’t make choices at a certain point in our life out of convenience and put off the risk or the dream because I had a bill to pay, or it’s easier to do this than to do this, right? And then time keeps on moving because we can’t slow it down, and maybe it’s too late. So that’s the relatability. That’s the way in the Sci-Fi dark twist comes when Landon’s in that spot that so many of us are in or have been in or can relate to, and he starts to hear the voices, and he starts to hear the visions or see the visions. And it’s another version of him who got to live that life and is offering him a chance that a lot of us don’t get or don’t feel that we can get to actually become part of that life again. But he’s. He’s saying, you can have this if you just. And the problem is. And the darkness comes in, And the psychological torment comes in when that just is probably not very beneficial, psychologically and physically, to our land and in here and now. So, yeah, there’s a bit of a fantastical element which makes it fun to read, and you can read it just for that, but thematically, at its core, it’s mental health, it’s dreams deferred, it’s depression. It’s that thing that we go through alone and feel very isolated in, as individuals, and yet, I think just about all of us can relate to it at the same time, it’s universal, and yet it feels so isolating. so I’m hoping that’s kind of like one of the appeals of the book, and that’s some of the feedback I’ve been getting, too.

An X-Men detour

Kris: All right. You gave it to Dave with Stephen king, and now I get to geek out because you said Claremont and X Men. So, yeah, that was. Our first episode was on our nerd origin story, and we had to pick three, and that was one of my three. So, Claremont’s X Men.

Jason Douglas: That’s dear to my heart. I’m gonna. I don’t wanna. I’m very reluctant to say what I’m gonna say next. but if I put it out there in the world, I guess it’s probably gonna have to come true. I may or may not be flirting with the idea, putting together an entire Claremont X Men run. Do you know what I mean? It’s like. It’s very daunting. I’ve got a nice chunk, but there’s definitely some, more expensive keys that I don’t have. And if I say it out loud, do I have to do it?

Kris: I’ve spoken into existence.

Jason Douglas: Well, I know I start off with the kid gloves. I did. I just. I just completed my new mutants run. Uh-huh. And I’m very. I cheated. I cheated on the nineties, though. I got the facsimile edition, because you want to talk. So I said at twelve, it was dumb for me to just read it, right? Even dumber, I think, a year later, I went down the street kid Randy’s house. Randy’s, like a year younger, so I think I’ve got the upper hand. And, I’m like, randy, I will trade you this comic for this comic, okay? One for one. Very straight up. Totally thought I was getting the better end of the deal because I traded him a new mutants 98 for a new mutants 93. Now, 98, there’s some deadpool dude really awkwardly positioned on the COVID that nobody cares about, but on 93, Wolverine is leaping at cable’s face, claws unsheathed. And, like, how. Like, I couldn’t get that one anywhere. And I was. I got the better end of the deal until things happened. And now I’m not willing to shell it out. So my. I got new mutants run completed. Facsimile 98. but I guess I put it out there. I guess I. Yeah, I spoke into existence. So I guess it’s got to happen now. So let’s go, Claremont.

Kris: All right.

The heart of “Parallel” is how people often abandon their dreams

Jason Douglas: You.

Kris: You referenced this, just a bit ago, but, the heart of this story of parallel is how people often abandon their dreams to settle, and the breadth that comes with that. And that’s something that, while reading this personally, I had to, like, put my phone down as I was reading it, and, like, okay, I need to. Hang on. Let me collect myself for a minute.

Jason Douglas: Even.

Kris: Even the forward of, into the book. Like, every paragraph, I was like, hang on. That just hit me. So, I know that I had personal experiences that I can relate. But, and I think you referenced this, at the beginning of the interview, but did you have anything personal, experiences that informed your approach to this story?

Jason Douglas: all the time. Like, it’s like, there’s like, I’m thinking about it more often than I’m not. I think. I mean, I’m older than you guys, and every time, every time I got, you know, some arbitrary number, some age, you name it, and I hit it and I look back and, like, well, what happened? What. What have I done? What have I not done, right? And, and being in the classroom is. You create this deception because the kids don’t age. It’s, you know, if you teach the same grade level for, any more than a couple of years, like, your body’s falling apart, your hair is turning gray, your own children are growing up, and these kids are the same. You know, I taught fourth grade for 13 years, and I didn’t think I was more than ten years old for 13 years, you know what I mean? And it just, it doesn’t change. And suddenly I’m 30, and suddenly I’m 40. And it was like, what Landon’s going through, I definitely, acutely have felt at various points in my life, right? But I’ll tell you this. The catalyst, that was not the catalyst to start typing that summer, when I. When I said, I’m not writing a play this summer, I’m going to write a comment this summer. the existential dread came from me. The general premise comes from me, but the catalyst actually came from former students. So I’ve been doing this long enough where I’ve got all these former students that are literally Landon’s age right now, right? Like, late twenties, pushing 30. And I was in contact with enough of them, and I always, this is the one I always say, because she is always on my mind when I think about this. Like, she reached out to me one day, and she’s just like, why am I in this cubicle? Why am I not in Chicago dancing, right? Which was like, she had been talking about that since she was nine and here. And. You know what I mean? And it was just like Landon. It was, it was in the future, but only two steps away at 18, at 22. But you’ve got a bill to pay, right? You’ve got a loan to pay off. You’ve got, a relationship that is in the here and now that if you went and pursued the dream, that relationship would end. Like, you name it, whatever life getting in the way of life is, so many of us do that. And it was eating away at her and a few other students that I was still in contact with. And that was actually the catalyst, because it was like, oh, I know what you’re talking about. And I think the thematic thing that I talked about to you guys earlier was every single person that I talked to about that theme with felt utterly and completely alone in it. You know, because it’s just them, right? It’s just inside their head. And yet here we are going, it was, it was 100% connected. Empathy, because we all go through it and you feel so alone in it. And that was, that was the, that was the spark, that was the light switch flipping on and going, that that’s what I’m gonna write about.

Dave: Yeah, it’s definitely, it’s definitely universal. I think, everybody, especially once you get out of your, out of your teens and into your twenties, you start really looking back. And the older you get, the more it seems to just keep rolling down on you.

Jason Douglas: Yeah, there’s that irony. There’s that irony because, like, at that age, and you can’t blame us, you can’t blame them. At that age, the future just feels like it’s forever, right? Time seems so much more infinite. and so I think it’s easier to set it aside, to defer the dream, because who cares? Who cares? It’s just a month, it’s just a year. I’ve got forever in front of me. So I think it’s easier to set it aside. And then when you realize how much harder it is once things get rolling and once, stagnation sets in, or the kind of, the apathy that can set in as you don’t flex those muscles or you don’t flex those dreams anymore, that’s when the regret kicks in. But it’s usually after this chunk of time where it’s laid dormant, and there’s that period of time where you don’t remember that that was your thing. And then when you wake up and see that it just hasn’t moved even an inch forward, much less taking the big leap. I think that’s where for a lot of people, the panic comes or the anxiety comes, or maybe it settles into a depression. And obviously, as an individual, you deal with it in different ways and everybody has their own story. But like you said, I truly think it’s universal.

One shot, 64 pages is unusual in the comic book industry

Dave: Now. Parallel is extremely self contained. One shot, 64 pages. That’s pretty unusual in the comic book industry, when everything seems to be serialized, you want to have a mini series why just one shot?

Jason Douglas: Well, I mean, it was going to be a self contained, contained story anyway. So, like, when I started page one, I mean, I thought that 1st 32 pages was like an oversized first issue and there was two more issues to go, or something like that. But regardless, it would have been the one story anyway. It was Travis who kind of said, no, it’s a one shot at 64 pages. And I said, yes, I can go do that. part of that, I think, is an industry thing, right? Where, like that, I think I mentioned it earlier, that 80 year old structure of Marvel and DC, for example, the infrastructure is created to create continual sales month by month by month, right? That’s why books can get up into the whatever, even with all the modern reboots. But, it’s a different structure. So, one, I think, of the beauties of indie comics is for all the struggles that indie comics have, right? It’s a lot harder to get something made. It’s definitely infinitely harder to get it out to people and in front of people, right? there’s a lot more at risk. You know, a Marvel book fails. Marvel does not collapse, right? That’s not the end. Whereas the vast majority of indie companies might only have that first title or that second title, and then they go the way the dodo. So for all the restrictions that indie has, there is so much more storytelling freedom and not storytelling freedom, but just there’s so much more flexibility. Because I truly believe that comics are probably the most malleable medium out there. Right there you can do anything in comics. They have all the best things about film. They have all the best things about prose, but do things that prose and film cannot do. there isn’t a story you can’t tell in comics. There isn’t an artistic twist, an artistic risk that you could take in comics. There isn’t one that you can’t take. And even inside the comics industry, Indy has more flexibility to be able to do that, because there isn’t, a corporate apparatus attached to it that, you know, for good or for ill. The bottom line is still the bottom line, right? I’m not saying there isn’t love and passion in every single thing that a big company puts out, because there obviously is, right? Because there’s still an artist, and they’re still a writer, and there’s still an inker, and there’s still a letter behind it, and still an editor who cares. But it’s still part of a much bigger machine and indies. I mean, I, talk about family with source point, like you’re creating something with your family because it’s good and you want other people to see how good it is. And thus you have the ability to tell a self contained story, or you have ability to tell a story that is ostensibly about that universal theme. I mean, that is, it’s dark, but it’s relatable. but you’re probably not getting 64 pages of, you know, of a mainstream book where that’s what that’s about, and then ending it and saying there’s not going to be any more. So I think it has, I think it says a lot to do with indie comics being a place where you can do that.

“Parallel” tackles a major issue that seems to be trending in recent years

Kris: Now. Parallel tackles a major issue that seems to be trending of latent recent years, and that’s mental health. what are your thoughts on the increased awareness of this issue and what are your hopes going forward?

Jason Douglas: I think it’s great. I mean, m it’s a relatively new thing in the human experience, right? I mean, like, mental health, our modern conception of it is just a little bit over 100 years old. And the modern acceptability of it in society is a lot closer to 50, 60 years old. I mean, it is a relatively new thing, at least the way we think about it. I wanted to be really careful. So, in the writing of the script, every single professional you run into in the book, right, we’ve got doctor, we’ve got psychiatrist, we’ve got detective. I did not write those characters willy nilly. Those were vetted and discussed, with real life people in those professions that, you know, had some connection to my life. And so, like, when, when we get into those scenes where, where Landon is getting help and, you know, it’s working, and then things fall apart again. Like, all of that was discussed. Like, how would this play out? Here’s, here’s where I want it to go. And like, like, how would this play out? And how can, you know, can you help me portray this in a way where, even though I need the story to get to beat, you know, d by this point, as we’re moving him through that process, a, b and c, like, I want it to be a positive portrayal because, like, if at any point, you know, we talk about the universality of having feelings like this, and, and I mentioned the fact that, you know, when you in your life have that adverse reaction to choices you made before, it may manifest in some pretty serious depression, right? It might manifest in anxiety that could be anything from annoying to flat out crippling. And if there’s a single person who reads this, right? And maybe they’re picking it up because they want to support indie comics. Maybe they’re picking it up because they heard this, and they’re like, oh, that sounds cool. Maybe they’re picking up because they’re a Sci-Fi nerd and they’re like, I love you. Give me a parallel, parallel reality, and I’m in. But I think if any single person reads this book and says, maybe I need to talk to somebody, that’s a. That’s a huge win. That’s a huge win. That’s a huge victory, because, like, like, again, this is coming back to something we mentioned before. depression, regret, anxiety, any way it manifests in you. We. It’s like this. It’s. It’s this terrible, isolating experience, right? And yet. And yet there has been. There’s this apparatus out there, and I’m not even necessarily talking about going in and doing the cliche of laying on a couch and talking to somebody, though, if that works for you, then you go for it. But, like, like, if there are other people who can have empathy for you in this situation because they’ve gone through their own version of it, like, there are humans in your life that you can talk to, and it always, always helps. All right. It’s always better to not do it alone. And I’m hoping that that is something that thematically, through the book and depending on how you read it, and we haven’t really talked about this yet, but, like, there’s a lot of ambiguity in this story. Right. And some of that is in the script, and some of that is the way Adam draws it. And, like, I’ve gotten different feedback on how people are interpreting the ending. Most people lean one way, and if you see the ending of this book in the way that a lot of people see it, like, I really, really think that one of the reasons Landon gets to the point that he gets to is because he didn’t have to go through this extreme thing alone. And so I’m hoping that message portrays as well.

Dave: Yeah, it’s definitely, it feels like in a lot of places, the story could be interpreted a number of ways, which is really, cool when you have a story that kind of lets you think and dig into it.

Douglas on his interest in the DC and Marvel

Now, would you be willing to take your, writing to the big two eventually? What would you like to write if you could pick any book from the big two?

Jason Douglas: Well, I mean, they have. They have to come asking first. just because, the unsolicited submission rule applies whether you’ve written an indie comic or not. it is not something I’m actively seeking out, but if it was ever offered, I don’t think I could say no. Why would I? it’s what I grew up on. I mean, my answer is obviously X Men. But, but, but let me just tell you, like, for all the benefits I got for being blissfully ignorant about the process, I am, horrifically aware of the tangle of continuity and character that is the X Men universe. I listen to Jan Miles explain the X Men like, it’s like, I couldn’t you, you know, five minutes after I finished jumping up and down when the offer came through. To write anything from a title to a one shot or something like that, I would probably melt down in an anxiety puddle of, there’s no way my brain or my writing ability is up to the task of navigating the absolute mess that is the tangled web of X Men. but that would be my answer, I think. My real answer can’t even be an answer because it’s not a universe that I would even feel comfortable dipping my toe in. But, in my all time comic book, love is Neil Gaiman, Sandman. In fact, Sandman and Speed Woman’s mouse are the only two stories that followed me in my nine year hiatus from comics where, like, in my mid teens, I was like, I’m done with this. And then, you know, picked it back up, in my mid to late twenties. And those were, like, the only two stories, the only two books, the only two comics that I reread during that time. And so, like, Neil Salmon is like, that’s my, that’s at the center of my heart, but I wouldn’t even dare to be like, oh, would you like to write a little Morpheus story or something in the dreaming or something like that? no, I would not, because I am not worthy.

Kris: Yeah, I’m in the middle of an X Men read through currently, and, yeah, it’s wild.

Jason Douglas: Yeah, I’m kind of, I’m working through. I’m doing it a little haphazardly, but, like, I’ll read a chunk here, I’ll read a chunk there. and eventually I’ll probably go back. I just read, you know, because I quit. I quit in the mid nineties. So I just read. I got the omnibus, and I just read it for the first time, age of Apocalypse. And. Yeah, right. So I quit. Like, right. Like, I got through executioner song as a kid, and maybe a year after that, but like I was out by 95 and that’s when Age of Apocalypse hits, right? And I, so I had never read it before. I mean, I knew about it. I understood, the impact, the long term impact it has as a story. But I had not read it until I bought the omnibus and read the whole thing straight through of was just, this is fantastic. So I’m jumping around but working through a lot of x Men right now myself as well.

Kris: Well, as our listeners, know, I was not privy to comic book shops or anything growing up. I had muggle parents who, you know, didn’t really know anything to push me in any direction. You know, I watched like the x Men animated series growing up and all the you know, Batman the animated series and TMNT and all this stuff growing up in the nineties. But I didn’t learn about comic books truly until I was like 1718 years old. So I didn’t really start hitting it really hard until my twenties. So yeah, all of this is new to me. I just read Age of Apocalypse for the first time a couple months back too. And as a huge, as a huge magneto fan, seeing him as the primary protagonist, it’s so fulfilling.

Jason Douglas: Well, I came, I’m, I’m, I’m in a very similar boat to you. So I I do not have cool parents and I would like here, here’s exhibit a. my parents are of an age where my mother as a middle teenage girl was offered a free ticket to go see the Beatles in Detroit, I think in 1965. And she turned it down to stay home and do that sixties teenage girl thing of washing and curling her hair. So like right there that sets a tone of and without having older siblings, without having nearby cousins, I didn’t have the guy down the street who’s like, this is what, it’s cool. I came to just about, I came to my musical taste, my movie taste, definitely my love of comics. I came to everything just a few years later than a lot of my peers. And so, like, but to offset that I’ve got like a very obsessive personality. So once I did fall in love with something, I needed all of it, right? Yep. So like I fell in love with valiant comics in the early nineties. You know, I was still, I was still reading my, I’ve still got my Marvel subscriptions, but I fell in love with the valiant universe in the early nineties. And so like my pull list at my local comic shop was every valiant title. And like that was me for a few years, like, riding my bike to that shop, not being smart enough to take a backpack, but, like, riding all the way back with the brown paper bag, you know, on my handle, trying to grip the handle with the bag there, and riding all the way back like I needed it all. Once I got into valiant, I had to have all the titles, you know, once I. If I was reading X Men, and, you know, of course, the crossover culture doesn’t help with this, but I needed all the titles. But speaking of Magneto, one of my great, kind of delightful rediscoveries was going back and reading, new mutants through for the first time. And, like, when Magneto becomes the headmaster, like, when he becomes the good guy. I love that, you know, kind of started in, you know, getting that backstory. And in x Men 200, I love, benevolent magneto more than, scene chewing silver Age Magneto, like, by far. Yeah, yeah.

Kris: Oh, man, it’s so great. And I’m just as obsessive. When I got my Marvel Unlimited subscription, I read all 800 plus issues of amazing Spider Man. I read all, ah, plus issues of spectacular. Yeah. So quarantine has been great for me, as far as reading comics. so I’ve gone. I started, I read X Men, uncanny X Men number one. And it didn’t really vibe for me. I was like, where’s all the cool characters? Okay, here’s these five lame os. so I skipped ahead. I skipped ahead to giant size x Men in 75, and then picked it right up with the good stuff in claremont. And now I currently am in 2008, and I picked up a bunch of titles I didn’t do. New mutants. I’m gonna go back and do new mutants.

Jason Douglas: Oh, it’s so good. It’s so good.

Kris: I’m gonna go back and do Excalibur because Kurt Wagner is my favorite mutant. And I was like, where did he go for all these years? And kitty kitty pride as well. So I’m gonna go back and read Excalibur, but I picked up, new, mutants with morrison in zero one. I picked up, whedon’s astonishing. So right now, I’m in 2008, and I’ve got, like, four different titles that I’m reading currently, but, yeah.

Jason Douglas: Wow.

The future of Jason Douglas writing career

Kris: so, Jason, what’s next for you? Any projects or goals that you can tease our audience here?

Jason Douglas: Yeah, absolutely. So, I’ve actually kind of got a new project in the pipeline. I’ve got a pitch ready. I’ve got character bios. I’ve done my research. I’ve got story beats before issues and a complete issue script of something that I’m really, really excited about. So that’s something I need to, be pitching out there to source point, hopefully very soon, by the end of the summer. it’s called tenantly called Jane American. And it is, it’s a story, in the same way it’s a superhero story. In the same way that parallel is a Sci-Fi parallel world story, right. Thematically, at its core, it’s about a whole bunch of other stuff, which dominates the storytelling. But there is this underlying theme of an individual in the story with some enhanced abilities. this story is very much dedicated to my late grandmother because it’s a post world. It’s a post war, World War two story in small town Michigan. it takes place in 1946, and it’s really, really inspired not only by some of the things that my grandmother went through, but, again, inspired by students of mine. Right? Because one of the things that breaks my heart every year is any of my students, that are in a minority of any kind, whether it be race or gender or, you know, identification or religion. And even in the 21st century, having to deal with still being made, even in subtle ways or not so subtle ways, other or less than. And then taking it back to a much more extreme time in 1946. when what I’ve got is this story of this young lady, this 15 year old girl named after my grandmother, who, when her father dies in 1942 on the trauma of that event, spurs, on that extra ability. Okay, we’re talking about strength. We’re talking about speed. We’re talking about senses. And her mother is now supporting the family, her brother and her. But when all the soldiers come back from World War two, all those Rosie the riveter jobs are gone, and they have no way to support the family, but she has these abilities. She could do the work of ten of those guys, but she’s in the closet about it, just like so many people, in the history of our country, are kind of closeted about being slightly different anyway, right? And so the story kind of plays out about her interacting and. And getting a job in this factory. And I think one of my favorite things about putting the story together was, I got to base it on a lot of reality. Not only, you know, that kind of historical context of post World War two, but most of the story takes place in this factory, which is a real life factory in Plymouth, Michigan, where my great grandfather worked during World War two, and it was one of those kind of factories where, they converted it for the war effort, right? So it was a wire factory, called wall wire. And they converted it into a place that made Marsden mats. Marsden mats are these long strips of metal that became the temporary runways in Europe and the Pacific. So you could, like, make a Runway in the middle of the jungle if you needed you to get your planes on and off the ground. And it actually was one of only two factories in the United States, one in Alabama and this one in Michigan, that got to hang on to that contract in the post war years and keep making these Marsden mats, because they were eventually used in the Berlin airlift and other efforts to rebuild Europe. And so I actually had a great grandfather who worked in there, and my family was kind of from this area. And so we’ve got this story about this young girl who is struggling with the fact that she is thought of less than in 1946 America, not only because she’s female, but the thing that makes her even, even more than she’s got a hide as well, because it’s not like, you know, if you go out there, it’s that superhero story where, or that superpowered story where, they are other. Right. they are the extreme minority. Right. So a little bit of hint of x Men in there, too, right. Where, if you presented the fact that you were a 15 year old girl and you could lift a tractor above your head. as much as we love our superhero tropes, that’s going to be ostracized, picked apart in a lab, or flat out killed before they become the hero that we all kind of worship in, in the four color comics. So it’s a lot about that. So I’m pretty excited about that one. I’m, working on that right now, kicking around a couple other things with. With a buddy of mine, and, we’ll see where that goes.

How to get your hands on “Parallel”

Dave: Well, that sounds really exciting as we’re winding down our interview, and this has been definitely one of. One of our. The favorite, opportunities we’ve had to sit down and speak to somebody on our podcast so far. how can people who want to read parallel actually get a hold of your book?

Jason Douglas: Easy peasy. So, like, right. It has never been easier. So, obviously, the last four months have been pretty nuts for, the world and for comics, you know, the world in general of comics specifically. Right. but right now, it is pretty much available in three very, very easy ways. there is a decent chance, because diamond is up and running again. That parallel might be in your local comic shop, right? So you walk in there, you check the shelf, you go to the indies, you go under p, you find out if there’s other source point books in there, might be on the shelf, it would be there today. if they don’t have it, diamond and source point will do refillment orders for you. So all you’ve got to do is walk into your shop. If you want to support brick and mortar, which I recommend you do, you walk in there and say, hey, will you order this book for me? And they’re like, what book would you like? You can mention Jason Douglas, you can mention source point, you can mention parallel. But the easiest way to do it is you give them that diamond order code, which is really easy to remember. All you got to do is say, I would like, and it’s Feb 20, 1983. I remember that because that’s when empires, I’m sorry, that’s when return of the Jedi came out. so Feb 20, 1983, and that’ll get you a copy of it. And then if that doesn’t work, if you can’t get to your lcs, if your lcs is closed because of precautions, if you live too far away, super, super easy. www.sourcepointpress.com, you go to the link in the store and you order it from them and they will ship it to you at a very reasonable price. So there’s a three easy ways to get it and, if anybody. So there’s a couple of variants left too, of that really beautiful Les Garner variant. There’s a couple of those. You go and, seek me out on Instagram and that’s really easy to find. That’s just a Douglas writes, come over and say hello. Come over and ask questions. I’m very accessible there. I’ll always write you back. give me a follow. But there’s a direct link in my bio, not only to the SourcePoint website, if you want to order the regular cover, and read the book, but those last few copies of the Garner variant, I’ve got a direct link in my bio there for, for you as well.

Kris: Jason, we thank you so much you, for your time. This has been a fantastic interview. you mentioned your Instagram writes. Any other social media or any other things you want to plug?

Jason Douglas: Oh, no, that’s it. I mean, you, ah, guys know I’m a teacher, so, I am very social media shy. so my Instagram account is how I reach out to the comics community, and that’s all I’m going to do. Teachers, be wary of social media. You make one mistake, and let’s not even get into that. But, yeah, check me out on Instagram. accessible by email, too, if you’ve got something you need to send me. And that’s just Jason Douglas writesmail.com. But those are the two ways you can get in touch with me. And, I will definitely, definitely get back at you. Gentlemen, I got to tell you, this has been a blast because not only did you ask fantastic, like, deep questions, you let me nerd out about comics, too, which makes me so happy.

Dave: That’s what we do here every week.

Kris: It’s mutual, man.

Jason Douglas: It’s mutual. Oh, I loved it. This is so much fun. Thank you so much for having me on.

Nerd Commendation: “Extraction” on Netflix

Dave: Alrighty, next up, we have our weekly nerd commendations. Stick around. And we’re back. Kris, it is nerd commendation time. What do you have for our listeners this week?

Kris: We have a historic day, ladies and gentlemen. This is my first nerd commendation. That is not a comic book series.

Dave: I’m shocked.

Jason Douglas: I tell you, I’m shocked.

Kris: But in my defense, during quarantine, that’s all I’ve done, is read comics. So I have a lot to recommend. but my nerd commendation comes from Netflix, this week, and it is the film extraction, starring Thor himself, Chris Hemsworth. And, that’s not the only MCU tie. It’s also, co written, by the Russo brothers themselves. Joe and Anthony Russo did the screenplay on this, and it’s based on the graphic novel that they co wrote with Andy Parks, called Ciudad. Now, it varies a little bit, as you are wont to do when you’re developing film and tv, from books. that takes place in Paraguay. This takes place in southern Asia, in India and Bangladesh. and I’m reading the synopsis on IMDb right here. Tyler Rake, a fearless black market mercenary, embarks on the most deadly extraction of his career when he’s enlisted to rescue the kidnapped son of an imprisoned international crime board. So, I mean, this is every, like, testosterone fueled, action movie dream that you could ever have. it’s so fantastic. And I was, you know, obviously, Chris Hemsworth and I are actually twins. We’re just three years apart. We are both Thor. We shared the exact same birthday, just three years apart. our mother went through a hellacious labor for three years until I came out. No. so, you know, Hemsworth is one of my favorite people in Hollywood. So I definitely wanted to check this out, and it did not disappoint. And I was, you know, I was concerned that, you know, outside of MCU, I haven’t really seen a lot of his work outside of 2009, Star Trek, his little snippet as Kirk’s father. so I was interested to see, you know, so many actors when it comes to such an iconic role, they get typecast, and, you know, it’s hard to grow beyond that. I was like, can he do this? And if you love, like, Jason Bourne films or Bond films or things of that nature, mission impossible, this is right up your alley. This is such a fun film. And the overarching thing that I came away with watching this movie. Dave, you remember the first season of Daredevil. I forget the episode, when he has that iconic hallway fight scene.

Dave: One of the greatest fight scenes I’ve ever seen. Yes, absolutely.

Kris: That’s basically this entire movie. You have that single pan camera shot going through so many scenes of this movie that it’s just like, oh, my God. I had to pause it, and, like, because my adrenaline, my heart was palpitating out of my chest. So it’s so action packed, and it’s so visually stunning to watch.

A strong film with a nuanced Hemsworth performance

And then, you know, the acting, admittedly, there’s a lot of actors that are foreign film stars that I had no previous experience with. Hemsworth, I can’t say enough about his portrayal. It’s so wonderful. But I’m going to try the pronunciation on this. But, Rudraksh jaiswal, plays the young boy that he is trying. His character of Ovi is the boy that he’s trying to rescue. And it’s so, like, human, it’s so deep. And the connection that he has with him, with Tyler Rake’s character. And then, golshifta Farahani, she’s an iranian actress, and she plays kind of the. The opps person here, in this film as Nick, and she is fantastic, in her own right, as, like, a bad a girl, in charge. So, just can’t say enough about how action packed this was and really, truly enjoyed it.

Dave: I’m really glad to hear you enjoyed it. I have this movie sort of on my radar, but I’ve not watched it yet. So this recommendation comes, at a great time. I might actually check that out later today. I’m a big fan of Hemsworth myself. I think his thor is absolutely pitch perfect. So, seeing him in another role would be really exciting. I’m definitely going to be checking that out.

Kris: Now, if you’re also. I forgot to mention if you’re a fan of David Harbour’s work, I know he’s big with stranger things fans. hellboy, not so much. It was not as well received. but I’m excited to see him in the upcoming Black Widow film. He has a great couple of scenes in this film. So David Harbour cameo is great in a couple scenes in here as well.

Nerd Commendation: “Harleen”

Dave, what is your nerd commendation for this week?

Dave: I’m gonna stay traditional and go straight for the comic book. so this time I would like to recommend the DC Comics black label book. For those of you that don’t know, the black label, is a label of DC Comics specifically for mature titles. So this is not exactly an all ages kind of book. However, I thought it was still worth talking about. The, book is Harleen by. And I hope I don’t butcher his name. Stepan Sejek. he has been, on my radar as an artist for a long time, due to his contributions to witchblade. he was the artist on witchblade in an era of that particular book, which, may stand as my favorite. And I’ve read the entire series, so that is saying something. This particular book, as the title suggests, is about Harley Quinn. He both wrote the book, and did the art for it. And it is basically an origin story of Harley Quinn. it is a three issue, limited series that basically focuses on Harley as a psychiatrist. she is a, ah, young psychiatrist with a theory that when a person is stuck in fight or flight over prolonged periods of time that it damages the areas of the brain responsible for empathy. And she is wanting to do research in this area. she is, not very well respected in her field. However, as a psychology student. She had a affair with a professor. so that has, sort of labeled her, as a professional. Ultimately, she is actually, funded. Her research is funded by Bruce Wayne, who is, of course, trying to help find a cure for people, that become super criminals like the Joker. And ultimately that is what brings her to Arkham Asylum. the entire second issue is nothing but her interactions with the Joker. Her interviews, and how he sort of gets into her head ultimately. so the writing on it is very sharp. The art which is digitally created is fantastic. It’s very, evocative. There, is a version of Harvey Dent and eventually two face in this book that is a fantastic portrayal of that character. So I’m a very big fan of this book. I really only have one criticism of this book, and that is the visual design of the Joker. I’ve always felt that the notion of the Joker, who was a pretty grotesque figure, being able to essentially seduce his psychiatrist through mind games, was a fascinating story. in this particular tale, though, Joker, is. He’s all those things. He’s manipulative and he gets into her head and all that. But, the way he is interpreted visually is, well, he’s also attractive. It’s sort of hot Joker syndrome. And that’s the only thing that took me aback a little bit. Other than that, I think it is one of the definitive portrayals of Harley Quinn. and that is saying something, considering that her origin story, as told by Paul Dini, her creator in the book mad love, is one of my all time favorites. But I have to say this was a fantastic, highly recommended book, again, for mature readers. So that is something to keep in mind. There, is a healthy dose of language and violence here. But as a fan of the Harley Quinn character, I really, really enjoyed this book. And ultimately, I was thrilled to see that her look in this book, when she finally does become Harley Quinn, is in fact, a jester, which is the definite iconic Harley Quinn look in my.

What went wrong with “Suicide Squad” and how was it critically reviewed

Kris: Alright, Dave, so I’m a HBO Max subscriber and I’m trying to get my subscriptions worth. And, despite many protestations, I tried suicide squad.

Dave: Oh, you poor man. What were you thinking?

Kris: I don’t know. I, immediately went back to Game of Thrones right after. In your opinion, as a well versed DC fan, what went wrong with Suicide Squad and how was it? Ah, as far as their depiction of Joker, I’m assuming, what did they do wrong in Suicide Squad and what did they do right here?

Dave: Suicide Squad is a topic that we could spend, easily an episode talking about. I think ultimately the movie that they were trying to make was a fairly dark movie. And then the success of Guardians of the Galaxy essentially made the studio ask for a Guardians of the Galaxy kind of movie, something more lighthearted, something music, heavy. And ultimately, trying to turn Suicide Squad in the Guardians of the Galaxy, I think, was to the great detriment of that, particular movie.

The Joker in “Harleen” feels very different from previous comics

Now, as far as the portrayal of the Joker goes, Jared, ah, Leto’s Joker might be my least favorite portrayal of the character. And I don’t think there’s a lot in common between Jared Leto’s Joker and the Joker in Harleen. The, Joker in Harleen is not, you know, this. This strange crime boss. I don’t even know quite what Jared Leto was going for with his interpretation. But the Joker in Harleen feels, despite the visual design, very much like the classic, traditional joker. He’s very smart, he’s clever, he’s funny, he’s manipulative. There’s a great opening scene in the first issue where he has a confrontation with Batman, which is just reads like classic directly from any other DC comic book. The book, Harleen’s, seems to try to distill the character of Harley Quinn to her essence and does an extremely good job at that. And in doing so, definitely, touches on the quintessential Joker, I think.

Call to Action

Kris: All right, ladies and gents, that wraps up another week’s episode of the Nerd by Word podcast. Thanks for coming in. as always, you can find this podcast every Monday morning on your podcast feeds, whether that’s Apple podcasts, Spotify, tune in, or even our website, nerdbyword.com.

Dave: Yes, and, please be sure to follow us on social media. We are on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook. and there you can always find some, interesting nerd related posts, as well as the newest news about what we are up to and a cheap plug here. At this point, if you would like to head on over to ThenerDaily.com, you will find an article that I write, wrote there about, the television series Batwoman, which I think, listeners of this podcast might enjoy.

Kris: All right, thanks, ladies and gents. Stay well and stay nerdy.

Dave: The nerd by word is produced by two nerds, Chris and Dave, to encompass all aspects of the nerd multiverse. The theme music was written by Al Jimenez, our show art teacher’s original art by Ash redesign, as well as public domain comment panels. Find us online at, nerdbyword.com on Twitter at Nerd by word and send questions and comments to nerdbyword@gmail.com.